Guest shiloh357 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 1 hour ago, ZacharyB said: I would have to say Yes! I have ignored possibly the 3 most damning NT passages. They are just way too heavy-duty to even contemplate. IMO, having the indwelling Holy Spirit does NOT guarantee eternal life. What? The one who is born-again can and may NOT walk away from salvation? What ever happened to our free-will? Is it not possible for one to choose his/her preference, i.e. to habitually sin? However, yes, the Holy Spirit will do everything He is allowed to do (by the Father) ... to bring the born-again believer back to the faith! Meanwhile, da Quikster has not told us what "TO" means. I am sorry, but this is really inaccurate theology. Why not go ahead and provide us with what you think are the hardest, most condemning passages that you claimed to have ignored? I bet they are not as heavy-duty as you think they are. And yes, having the Holy Spirit indwelling us IS the guarantee of eternal life. (Eph. 1:13-14) He is the guarantee of our inheritance. His indwelling is proof that we are the children of God (Rom. 8: 16-17). The person who is born again will not walk away from salvation because the person who has been born again, does not have a desire to so. No one who is truly saved ever wants to be unsaved, nor do they desire to live in sin. Sorry, Zachary, but your theology is simply not biblical. You are applying way too much human reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted June 22, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Woundeddog commented to me,,,,this Quote Dear Sister-- I don't think we could choose to serve Satan after accepting the Lord-- the book says Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world--- so I am thinking the Lord would not allow a true believer to chose to serve Satan. I think by the grace of God we would be protected from such a choice by the Holy Spirit To expand on what I was suggesting to Sister Kwik, The Holy Spirit seals us He is the earnest of our salvation, but in the rare event that a believer chooses to remain in sin ( or seemingly serve Satan) they can be called home early- if a sin is grievous enough and unrepented I believe the Lord will say " Okay- for your own good I am brining you home" Look at Ananias and Saphira- I don't think there is any doubt that they where beliers- but sinned in such a manner that their service their on the temporal plain was cut short and they where taken home--- it doesn't say they went to hell- but they did loose their lives. Paul also says that if a brother is sinning a sin unto death we should not pray for him. I believe the ultimate safe guard of our salvation is that if we swing so far out of line the Lord will bring us home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
post Posted June 23, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,045 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 615 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/09/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1976 Share Posted June 23, 2016 12 hours ago, ZacharyB said: Most of the dire warnings to believers are "seems to be" warnings ... for the simple reason that God does NOT wish to freak out the babes in Christ before they have fair chance of being established in the faith. Basically, ALL spiritual Truth comes via spiritual revelation! You know, those who are being led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. wait, what? only true children of God realize that they may not truly be children of God ?? you're not really part of the family until you know you might be disowned any moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
post Posted June 23, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,045 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 615 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/09/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1976 Share Posted June 23, 2016 7 hours ago, ZacharyB said: What ever happened to our free-will? i would be pretty excited if you could teach me how Romans 9 is actually describing mankind's free will. why do so many people act like "free will" is the ultimate virtue and that all doctrine must be held up to whether or not it includes "free will" or not? but is God waiting around like your servant to see if you will choose Him or won't? is He ever "surprised" by what you decide to do? do you think He is just pacing back and forth in the heavens wondering if you will "elect yourself" or not? worried that you might not, because then He'll sure look silly for planning so many things for your life? but 'oh well' Zach chose this instead of that. too bad God. guess it's back to the drawing board for the Almighty. why does that idea seem to be the 'litmus test' for sound doctrine, and not God's sovereignty ?? humans are bizarre in their thinking. but they all think they think straight. so weird! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
post Posted June 23, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,045 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 615 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/09/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1976 Share Posted June 23, 2016 6 hours ago, shiloh357 said: You are applying way too much human reasoning. i'm telling you all, we all have issues with our mentality. even having been declared holy, and being sanctified and redeemed - we must struggle against the influence on our way of thinking by the spirit of the age, which corrupts men's minds, and out of whose tutelage we who believe all were rescued. demolishing those old carnal ways of thinking is part of our ongoing sanctification & redemption, the renewing of our minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted June 23, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 21 hours ago, woundeddog said: I want a God that saves-- not one who makes us jump through hoops! I'm sorry, the Lord doesn't give a fig about what you want (re: the points of our discussion). Let's stick to the Scriptures about God's requirements. Oh, I forgot, we shouldn't care about His requirements, as if there were none! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted June 23, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) 14 hours ago, post said: i would be pretty excited if you could teach me how Romans 9 is actually describing mankind's free will. Okay, yes, Romans 9 requires further consideration. Except, I have always said that God must give one the faith required to believe. And after being chosen, the believer is observed for his/her reaction to grace! Perhaps in opposition to Romans 9, would you care to see the dozens of NT verses which are dire warnings (some veiled) to the churches re: losing eternal life? Dozens of 'em ... I'll send you a NT. What? Are these to unbelievers? Or are they to the indistinguishable tares amongst us? NO! ... Nothing makes sense, except they are to God's especially-chosen elect ... to keep them on the narrow path of Matthew 7 unto eternal life. News Flash ... ONLY God's elect heed His warnings !!! Butski, everyone else is held accountable to them! So, they serve a dual purpose ... God is big on that. Edited June 23, 2016 by ZacharyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted June 23, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Share Posted June 23, 2016 28 minutes ago, ZacharyB said: I'm sorry, the Lord doesn't give a fig about what you want I was commenting on my God who is strong enough to save-- not your god (notice small g) who is not able to keep his children safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
post Posted June 23, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,045 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 615 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/09/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1976 Share Posted June 23, 2016 4 hours ago, ZacharyB said: Okay, yes, Romans 9 requires further consideration. ok, then get back to us after you've further considered it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
post Posted June 23, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,045 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 615 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/09/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1976 Share Posted June 23, 2016 4 hours ago, ZacharyB said: Dozens of 'em ... I'll send you a NT. it's not as if i've never heard your position before. the scripture is not set against itself -- so what i think you and i both need to do is not take your bullet list as though it's the only thing the Bible says, but see how those things are reconciled with verses like this one: And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.(John 6:39) . . because what, do we doubt that Christ is faithful to fulfill the will of the Father? and do you notice that He's talking about 'those who have been given to Him' by the Father -- not 'those who gave themselves to Him by their own free will' ? the ones elected by the Father - not the ones who elected themselves. because as much as you can make a bullet list, i can make a bullet list of scriptures that indicate that "the gift and calling of God is irrevocable." so whatever scriptures you have in mind, the correct way for us to understand them must be consistent with John 6:39 and every other scripture that gives the impression that those who are being saved are elected, predestined, and cannot lose the gift that they have been given; that when we are faithless He remains faithful, & that salvation is by mercy, not works, so that it depends on God, not on the effort or desire of man. you've already been given an explanation that harmonizes this: that those 'dozens' of verses you have sitting at the ready to fire off are talking about losing rewards and blessings, not about having one's adoption revoked, or the absolute redemption given by God's grace annulled, or Christ's atonement set at naught. so which one do you think can't possibly be understood this way? perhaps that is where you should start -- and maybe after you fully consider Romans 9, because if you don't understand His sovereignty, it may be difficult to understand the central question of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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