The true Church of Christ

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Scripture clearly shows Hierarchy. So I would have to disagree with you.

You can disagree all you want, but Scripture does NOT show hierarchy.  Please note (Philippians 1:1):

APOSTLES AS SERVANTS

Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ,

THE SAINTS 

to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi,

THE PASTOR/ELDER/BISHOPS -- SHEPHERDS

with the bishops

THE DEACONS -- SERVANTS

and deacons:

Clergy and laity, as well as a hierarchy with a man-made priesthood, is contrary to Scripture.

[woundeddog]

1 hour ago, Judas Machabeus said:

perhaps some scripture to show this?

From the book of Romans

King James Bible
Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

Acts 8:3 But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to ...

... But Saul began ravaging the church, entering house after house, and dragging off men and women, he would put them in prison. ... Colossians 4:15 Give my greetings to the brothers and sisters at ... Give my greetings to the brothers and sisters at Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church in her house. ... 1 Corinthians 16:19 The churches in the province of Asia send you ... ... The churches of Asia send you greetings. Aquila and Prisca, together with the church in their house, send you hearty greetings in the Lord. ...

not exclusively but shows that house churches where the norm

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

6 minutes ago, woundeddog said:

From the book of Romans

King James Bible
Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

Acts 8:3 But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to ...

... But Saul began ravaging the church, entering house after house, and dragging off men and women, he would put them in prison. ... Colossians 4:15 Give my greetings to the brothers and sisters at ... Give my greetings to the brothers and sisters at Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church in her house. ... 1 Corinthians 16:19 The churches in the province of Asia send you ... ... The churches of Asia send you greetings. Aquila and Prisca, together with the church in their house, send you hearty greetings in the Lord. ...

not exclusively but shows that house churches where the norm

I know it started in house Churches. So is that where the true Church is? Do house Churches have Bishops and deacons? 

Back to my question. Do I go to someone's house Church? And how do I know it's a house Church from the New Testament. 

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

25 minutes ago, Ezra said:

You can disagree all you want, but Scripture does NOT show hierarchy.  Please note (Philippians 1:1):

APOSTLES AS SERVANTS

Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ,

THE SAINTS 

to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi,

THE PASTOR/ELDER/BISHOPS -- SHEPHERDS

with the bishops

THE DEACONS -- SERVANTS

and deacons:

Clergy and laity, as well as a hierarchy with a man-made priesthood, is contrary to Scripture.

 

Philippians 1:1

1 Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are at Philip'pi, with the Bishops and deacons: 

alright, let's look at the verse. Paul référés to him and Timothy as servants of Christ. Is that not what a Preacher is doing? Serving Christ?

 

to all the saints in Christ....

here hes addressing believers. Who are at a Church with Bishops and Deacons. 

Looks like a Church with heiarchy to me. 

We have a gathering of believers who are being address by an apostle and they have Clergy. 

Ezra, does your Church have Deacons and Bishops? It seems Paul's Church did. 

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

I know it started in house Churches. So is that where the true Church is? Do house Churches have Bishops and deacons? 

Back to my question. Do I go to someone's house Church? And how do I know it's a house Church from the New Testament. 

Test the spirit!

 

[HAZARD]

Many local churches are mentioned in Scripture: "the church that is in their house" (Romans 16:5; 1 Cor. 16:9; Col. 4:15; Ph'm 2), "the church of the Thessalonians"(1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1), "the church that is in Babylon" (1 Peter 5:13), "the church of Ephesus" (Rev. 2:1), "the church in Smyrna" (Rev. 2:8), "the church in Pergamos" (Rev. 2:12), "the church in Thyatira" (Rev. 2:18), "the church in Sardis" (Rev. 3;1), "the church in Phyladelphia" (Rev. 3:7), and "the church of the Laodiceans"(Col. 4:16; Rev. 3:14).

Such terms as the following are used in Scripture of the universal church and of local churches: "every church (Acts 14:23; 1 Cor. 4:17; Phil. 4:15), "the whole church" (Acts 15:22; Rom. 16:23; 1 Cor.14:23), and "assembly" (James 2:2). All local churches on Earth make the visible and universal church and all true saved men in all local churches make the invisible body of Christ. Universal terms are used of all local churches such as "the churches of God" (1 Cor. 11:16; 1 Thess. 2:14; 2 Thess. 1:4), "the churches" (Acts 9:31; 15:41; 16:5; 19:37; 1 Cor. 14:34; 2 Cor. 9:19-24; Rev. 2:7, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 22:16), "all churches" 1 Cor. 7:17; 2 Cor. 8:18; 11:28), and "all churches of the saints" (1 Cor. 14:33). The body of Christ is also called "the church of the firstborn" (Heb. 12:23), because it belongs to Christ, Who is the firstborn of every creature . . . the firstborn among many brethren" (Col. 1:15-18; Rom.8:29; Rev. 1:5). It is also called "the general assembly" (Heb.12:23). This term refers to the redeemed of all ages who will inhabit the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, which is called "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Rev. 21:9-10). The New Testament speaks of the church as follows: "the house of God" (1 Tim. 3:15) "the house" (Matt. 10:25; 2 Tim. 2:20-24; Heb. 3:6), "an habitation of God" (Eph. 2:22), "an holy temple" (Eph. 2:21), "a spiritual house" (1 Peter 2;5), "the building" (Eph. 2:21; 1 Cor. 3:9), "God's building" (1 Cor. 3:9), "lively stones" (1 Peter 2:5), "the temple of God" (1 Cor. 3:16), "the temple of the living God" (2 Cor. 6:16), and the "house" of Christ (Heb. 3:6).

All these passages teach that God dwells in men and that they are the outward manifestation of divinity in the Earth. Saved men are demonstrators of God and His power among the unsaved. They are to be God's representatives to bring the knowledge of God to all nations.

Like I said before,  Jesus Christs church is not a building or a particular religious group with some special name?  The new Testament Church, of which Jesus Christ is the head is a called out body of people of all nations who have been born again and who have lived a true Christian life and died in the faith. It also includes all those who are alive in Christ today. This present church is called the "ekklesia" of the New Testament times, called out of this world to evangelize the world in this age.

The church, in its largest signification is the whole company of redeemed in all ages, in Heaven and in Earth (Eph. 3:1-11; Heb. 12:23). It is the spiritual people who have been made members of the universal family of God. The church in this sense is the body of Christ, and it does not consist of saved and unsaved. It is not a group of individuals associated together for social and benevolent purposes, as seems to be on every hand in most worldly church gatherings. It is the body of people indwelt by God through the Holy Spirit and through whom God works in the world.

[woundeddog]

1 hour ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Back to my question. Do I go to someone's house Church? And how do I know it's a house Church from the New Testament. 

If its a new testament church it is comprised of believers that have put their faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ to forgive their sins--- it doesn't make any difference if its in a house- an open field  in the barn or in a magnificent edifice dripping with gold--- what makes it a church is the called out body of believers-- the way you know its a real church is by what they believe

. I think you are straining at gnats  where you worship is immaterial as long as its with a body of true saints.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

10 minutes ago, woundeddog said:

. I think you are straining at gnats  where you worship is immaterial as long as its with a body of true saints.

I think it's a very important question. Would you say truth is immaterial? I'm sure the answer would be no, you don't think truth is immaterial. 

There are thousand of bible only Churches that teach different things yet are believers. There can only be one truth.  You mention "true saints". That's interesting seeing that no one can point to the one true Church yet we can determine who a true saint is and who isn't. 

I don't think truth is immaterial therefore I do think it's important where you worship. 

 

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Looks like a Church with heiarchy to me. 

There was no clerical hierarchy in the apostolic churches. No pope, no patriarchs, no cardinals, no bishops (as understood today), no man-made priesthood, no catechumens.  All of this came later.

In Scripture, we see churches in all the cities with (1) saints, (2) elders (also called bishops), and (3) deacons. None on these churches claims to be the one true visible church, neither do the apostles recognize any such entity. And the epistle to the Romans does not even mention Simon Peter. Had he been the first pope, Paul would surely have mentioned him somewhere in that epistle.

At the same, the apostles had much to say about the Church as the Body of Christ.  This means all the born-again Christians in all the churches comprising one Body. 

The Roman Catholic Church has claimed that it is the one true visible church.  But Orthodox Christians say that the Orthodox churches comprise the one true visible church. Yet there are millions of Christ outside these two groups. So we return to the biblical truth that the true Church is not visible.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

22 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Many local churches are mentioned in Scripture: "the church that is in their house" (Romans 16:5; 1 Cor. 16:9; Col. 4:15; Ph'm 2), "the church of the Thessalonians"(1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1), "the church that is in Babylon" (1 Peter 5:13), "the church of Ephesus" (Rev. 2:1), "the church in Smyrna" (Rev. 2:8), "the church in Pergamos" (Rev. 2:12), "the church in Thyatira" (Rev. 2:18), "the church in Sardis" (Rev. 3;1), "the church in Phyladelphia" (Rev. 3:7), and "the church of the Laodiceans"(Col. 4:16; Rev. 3:14).

Such terms as the following are used in Scripture of the universal church and of local churches: "every church (Acts 14:23; 1 Cor. 4:17; Phil. 4:15), "the whole church" (Acts 15:22; Rom. 16:23; 1 Cor.14:23), and "assembly" (James 2:2). All local churches on Earth make the visible and universal church and all true saved men in all local churches make the invisible body of Christ. Universal terms are used of all local churches such as "the churches of God" (1 Cor. 11:16; 1 Thess. 2:14; 2 Thess. 1:4), "the churches" (Acts 9:31; 15:41; 16:5; 19:37; 1 Cor. 14:34; 2 Cor. 9:19-24; Rev. 2:7, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 22:16), "all churches" 1 Cor. 7:17; 2 Cor. 8:18; 11:28), and "all churches of the saints" (1 Cor. 14:33). The body of Christ is also called "the church of the firstborn" (Heb. 12:23), because it belongs to Christ, Who is the firstborn of every creature . . . the firstborn among many brethren" (Col. 1:15-18; Rom.8:29; Rev. 1:5). It is also called "the general assembly" (Heb.12:23). This term refers to the redeemed of all ages who will inhabit the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, which is called "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Rev. 21:9-10). The New Testament speaks of the church as follows: "the house of God" (1 Tim. 3:15) "the house" (Matt. 10:25; 2 Tim. 2:20-24; Heb. 3:6), "an habitation of God" (Eph. 2:22), "an holy temple" (Eph. 2:21), "a spiritual house" (1 Peter 2;5), "the building" (Eph. 2:21; 1 Cor. 3:9), "God's building" (1 Cor. 3:9), "lively stones" (1 Peter 2:5), "the temple of God" (1 Cor. 3:16), "the temple of the living God" (2 Cor. 6:16), and the "house" of Christ (Heb. 3:6).

All these passages teach that God dwells in men and that they are the outward manifestation of divinity in the Earth. Saved men are demonstrators of God and His power among the unsaved. They are to be God's representatives to bring the knowledge of God to all nations.

Like I said before,  Jesus Christs church is not a building or a particular religious group with some special name?  The new Testament Church, of which Jesus Christ is the head is a called out body of people of all nations who have been born again and who have lived a true Christian life and died in the faith. It also includes all those who are alive in Christ today. This present church is called the "ekklesia" of the New Testament times, called out of this world to evangelize the world in this age.

The church, in its largest signification is the whole company of redeemed in all ages, in Heaven and in Earth (Eph. 3:1-11; Heb. 12:23). It is the spiritual people who have been made members of the universal family of God. The church in this sense is the body of Christ, and it does not consist of saved and unsaved. It is not a group of individuals associated together for social and benevolent purposes, as seems to be on every hand in most worldly church gatherings. It is the body of people indwelt by God through the Holy Spirit and through whom God works in the world.

The Church Jesus founded was not just a spiritual Church. You laid out yourself how the Church also has a physical and heiarchial comportent. 

I agree that as believers we make up the body of Christ. That's why you can ask those in heaven to pray for you. Because they too are part of the body of Christ. 

What i am asking is where is that visible Church which Christ founded and the aposltes built up.