QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4

[Salty]

5 hours ago, heyvavhey said:

Those are related only because it's using the same words, but it is not equating Ephraim to Christians or vise versa. It's comparing something God said to Ephraim to something He now says to gentiles who were excluded from the covenants.

You are denying the Hosea connection Apostle Paul made between Ephraim and the Christian Church either out of Biblical ignorance, or because you instead want to heed a doctrine of men from somewhere else.

Rom 9:23-26
23 And that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom He hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As He saith also in Osee, "I will call them My people, which were not My people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, 'Ye are not My people'; there shall they be called the children of the living God."
KJV

Paul was quoting directly from Hosea 1 & 2 when speaking to Roman Gentile Christians!

Inferring that just because the words are the same in the Old Testament Book of Hosea it still does not involve Christ's Church, is a direct denial of what Paul said in Romans 9, and the Book of Romans is one of the foundation NT Books of Christian doctrine.

 

For my Christian Brethren that may be interested in further study on this:

The OT Book of Hosea was addressed specifically to the ten tribe "house of Israel" which per 1 Kings 11 God had chosen one of the tribe of Ephraim as king over them, separate from Judah, Benjamin, and Levi of the southern kingdom (1 Kings 12 thru 2 Kings 17).

The Book of Hosea begins with God commanding Hosea to go take a harlot for wife. And then name their offspring names which showed how the ten tribe northern kingdom had rebelled against Him (Hosea 1:2-9).

God then revealed there how He was going to end that  "house of Israel" northern kingdom and scatter them, which was a older warning He first gave Israel in Deuteronomy 4 & 28 that He would scatter Israel among the Gentiles if they rebelled against Him. God then made it plain that the "house of Judah" (the southern kingdom at Judea/Jerusalem) would not be involved in this.

Hos 1:6-7
6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Lo-ruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.

7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
KJV

Right there in plain sight, God made a clear distinction between the two separate houses of the children of Israel. So anyone who still denies this matter of the two separate houses after having been shown directly in God's Word have decided to listen to you know who.

 

Hosea 2 is very revealing, for God gives several markers as to the fate that would happen to the ten tribes of the "house of Israel", and then the final consolation would occur, which is where Apostle Paul quoted to Gentile Romans to include Christ's Church.

Because there are certain factions present here on this forum much like the "false brethren" converts which Paul himself had to deal with, I will display these markers in Hosea 2 line upon line which God gave us to understand, and it is... specifically given to those of Christ's Church to understand now by The Holy Spirit:

Hos 2:6-3:5
6 Therefore, behold, I will hedge up thy way with thorns, and make a wall, that she shall not find her paths.
7 And she shall follow after her lovers, but she shall not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them: then shall she say, I will go and return to my first husband; for then was it better with me than now.

God brought the kings of Assyria upon the ten tribe northern kingdom called the "house of Israel" in the days of Hoshea, king of Israel in Samaria, and took them all away to Assyria and the lands of the Medes (2 Kings 17). God then hedged up the ten tribe's paths, so they would not find their way back to the promised land where they were taken captive from. Her "lovers" God used as an of the northern kingdom playing the harlot against Him because of falling to Baal worship (remember Ahab and Jezebel's days especially).

God then revealed the ten tribes would continue in that false worship, but would not be fulfilled with it (i.e., "not overtaken them" and "not find them"). Then the house of Israel would get fed up and say, "I will go and return to my first husband...".

8 For she did not know that I gave her corn, and wine, and oil, and multiplied her silver and gold, which they prepared for Baal.

But the Israel of the northern kingdom was too busy forgetting God and worshiping Baal to know Who really gave her those Blessings (close to how it is today too, don't ya think?).

9  Therefore will I return, and take away My corn in the time thereof, and My wine in the season thereof, and will recover My wool and My flax given to cover her nakedness.
10  And now will I discover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, and none shall deliver her out of Mine hand.
11  I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

That is what God's scattering of the ten tribes among the Gentiles would accomplish. They would wander, still holding to their Baal idols until they forget Him almost totally, and the ten tribes would forget God's feast days, the new moons, and sabbaths.

12  And I will destroy her vines and her fig trees, whereof she hath said, These are my rewards that my lovers have given me: and I will make them a forest, and the beasts of the field shall eat them.
13  And I will visit upon her the days of Baalim, wherein she burned incense to them, and she decked herself with her earrings and her jewels, and she went after her lovers, and forgat Me, saith the LORD.

This is essentially what happened with the peoples who migrated from the east into Asia Minor and Europe (i.e., Cimmerians and Scythians). Each western nation they formed had their own pagan version of ancient Baal worship, Odin, Apollos, Jupiter, Mars, various pagan oracles, etc. But eventually, when Jesus was sent and crucified in Jerusalem being rejected there, these peoples accepted Him and put away their Baal idols and became the western Christian nations of history.

14  Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.
15  And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.

At this point God is comparing this move of the ten tribe house of Israel into the "wilderness" being like how he led the children of Israel out of Egypt into the promised lands; the direct pointer to it is unmistakable. It represents God still taking care of the ten tribes where He would scatter them to among the Gentiles. In Amos 9:9 He said He will gather them like corn through a sieve, and not the least grain would fall to the ground.

16 And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call Me Ishi; and shalt call Me no more Baali.

This represents the time when our Lord Jesus would come and offer us the New Covenant through His Blood. To His Apostles He said:

John 15:14-15
14 Ye are My friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of My Father I have made known unto you.
KJV

When His disciples went to the nations with The Gospel is when the old pagan nations of western Europe and Asia Minor would begin becoming Christian nations, the majority of its peoples believing on Christ Jesus, putting away their old idols of Baali. They would no more in ignorance call God by the wrongful name "Baali", but instead would call Him "Ishi" which means 'Friend'.

17  For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.
18 And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.
19  And I will betroth thee unto Me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto Me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20  I will even betroth thee unto Me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.

Again, this began especially in the Christian west when those nations began to put away their idols of Baal and instead believed on our Lord Jesus Christ, becoming Christians.

21 And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.

23 And I will sow her unto Me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not My people, Thou art My people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

That part in bold underlined is where Paul quoted to Gentile Roman believers in Romans 9 to the Christian Church.

 

 

[Salty]

33 minutes ago, heyvavhey said:

 

Never said anything remotely close to that in my life.

 

God has this to say to those "exclusivist gentiles"

 

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 True enough. They were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but fear— 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you. 22 Notice then the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell; but God’s kindness toward you, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off!

23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again.

“The Deliverer shall come out of Zion.
    He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
27 And this is My covenant with them,
    when I take away their sins.”

28 Concerning the Good News, they are hostile for your sake; but concerning chosenness, they are loved on account of the fathers[r]— 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you once were disobedient to God but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31 in like manner these also have now been disobedient with the result that, because of the mercy shown to you, they also may receive mercy.

 

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah

 

Yes, and that's why I myself as a Gentile believer on Christ Jesus, do not teach about the two separate houses of Israel in God's Word just to vex Jewish unbelievers, but instead to try and bring them into Christ's fold. I'm not one of those who believe the unbelieving Jews are doomed. I don't even believe the majority of the Jews at Jesus' 1st coming were responsible for His crucifixion, because I understand about the "mystery of iniquity" that Paul knew.

 

[n2thelight]

9 hours ago, Salty said:

Yes, and that's why I myself as a Gentile believer on Christ Jesus, do not teach about the two separate houses of Israel in God's Word just to vex Jewish unbelievers, but instead to try and bring them into Christ's fold. I'm not one of those who believe the unbelieving Jews are doomed. I don't even believe the majority of the Jews at Jesus' 1st coming were responsible for His crucifixion, because I understand about the "mystery of iniquity" that Paul knew.

 

The problem I see is not teaching the two houses,automatically dooming the Jew's.The part people keep missing for whatever reason is it's not the Jew's,rather those who call themselves Jew's but are not...

 

Two baskets of figs returned to form the state of Israel,the good and the bad...

 

I believe the house of Judah are Christian 

[Sister]

Hi Salty

I havn't answered your last post to me yet, but want to go back to this one again first.

I said this;

 

Quote

Israel will multiply during the millennium because they are flesh.  They will have children.  The resurrected saints do not multiply, and can never die again, but those in the flesh do, they die blessed and will be resurrected in the 2nd resurrection.

  Isaiah 65:20   There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Isaiah 65:23   They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

Isaiah 11:8   And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isaiah 11:9   They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

You answered this;

Quote

I don't interpret those specific Isaiah Scriptures literally in the flesh sense, but in the spiritual sense.

How do you see those scriptures in Isaiah as having a spiritual meaning?

It's mentioning a child not dying of a few days old, but living out his life until 100yrs.  The child lives to 100 and then he "DIES".  But the child that grows into a sinner dies also at the age of 100, only he dies cursed. 

Fact - both children die when they get old, the blessed and the cursed child.

There is still "death" happening "inside the kingdom" and "outside the kingdom"

It's not speaking of a spiritual death, but the end of one's life.  A beginning and an end.  When both die, they get put into a grave, which proves they are flesh, but their lives do not get cut short anymore.
 

Quote

 

The idea is that the only type of death for that time will be the "second death", i.e. death of one's soul and spirit at the Great White Throne Judgment when souls are cast into the "lake of fire". Until then, no soul will die during Christ's Millennium reign.

 

 

Isaiah is not speaking of Judgement day here, or the second death.  He's giving us an insight into what's going on during the millennium. The second death comes after the 1000 yrs, not during.  It's the actual process of being thrown into the lake of fire and being eliminated from this earth forever.
 

Quote

 

And the sucking child is about in God's future Kingdom there will no longer be things that hurt. The lion will eat straw like an ox.

 

It says that "nothing will hurt nor destroy" in God's holy mountain (inside the kingdom area)

It doesn't say that there will be no death, just showing no violence, or any thing that can harm even an innocent little child inside the kingdom.  The animals will be placid.  Even the animals will not kill each other, instead of eating meat, they will eat grass.  They have no use for meat anymore, therefore will not kill.

If you can see this what I am explaining, I would be so happy, because it's such a beautiful plan, and not a terrible one.

[WailingWall]

23 hours ago, heyvavhey said:

But the passages in Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Zechariah are ONLY dealing with how He will restore the tribes of Jacob in that day. Not a single gentile is required to fulfill this prophecy.

MATTHEW [24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The words of Jesus

JOHN 10 [14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. [15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. [16] And OTHER SHEEP I HAVE, WHICH ARE NOT OF THIS FOLD: THEM ALSO I MUST BRING, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and ONE SHEPHERD.

I MUST BRING! Jesus said there were “others” not of the fold of the house of Israel. These “others” are the gentiles that hear His voice. Them also He will bring.... Bring where? Bring to heaven as the raptuist claim? Nope. At the time when Jesus does bring us we will have but ONE SHEPHERD.

EZEKIEL 37 [21] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will GATHER THEM on every side, and BRING THEM INTO THEIR OWN LAND: [22]And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:  [23] Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. [24] And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have ONE SHEPHERD:

Jesus gathers His people {in the twinkling of an eye} and  BRINGS them to Israel, to the kingdom. We will have but ONE SHEPHERD

ISAIAH 56  [6] Also THE SONS OF THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. [8] The Lord God which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, YET WILL I GATHER OTHERS TO HIM, beside those that are gathered unto him.

Jesus brings them to His Holy Mountain. The kingdom rest. Yes, the “others” {John 10v16} {Isaiah 56v8} are the gentiles Heyvavhey. So when the LAST TRUMPET {1Cor.15} sounds we meet the Lord in the air and Jesus “brings” us to His holy mountain in Jerusalem for the kingdom rest. Not off to heaven as the Rapturist claim.

 

[Salty]

5 hours ago, n2thelight said:

The problem I see is not teaching the two houses,automatically dooming the Jew's.The part people keep missing for whatever reason is it's not the Jew's,rather those who call themselves Jew's but are not...

 

Two baskets of figs returned to form the state of Israel,the good and the bad...

 

I believe the house of Judah are Christian 

But I see the mystery of the two houses only given to those in Christ Jesus to understand.

Yes, the false Jews is what the "mystery of iniquity" is about.

I believe only part of the house of Judah are Christian. The majority of them aren't.

 

[heyvavhey]

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

Quote

 

The word is companions of ephraim......how many times do I have to repeat myself to you? 

Companions......never claimed we were the biological offsprings of Ephraim.....Companions of Ephraim. You get it???

You get it?

 

 

Sure. You have yet to establish that these "companions" are gentiles or christians or anything except companions. You have taken a word and changed the definition to imply something it doesn't actually say. 

 

 

 

 

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

Lets think here for a minute... I wonder where the gospel went to? Christ mentioned he came for some lost house....I wonder who that is? First born, sons of the living God.

 

 

For some bizarre reason you seem to think that an Israelite who believes in Christ will lose their identity if you call them a Christian. Does a chinies or african who believes in Christ lose their identity if you call them a christian?

 

no, you've got that wrong also. 

 

What I've said is that just being a christian does not make you an Israelite or a companion to ephraim. 

You've made some implication, drawn up a few allegories and metaphors, connected a few unrelated topics....but can't show where this is ever actually stated or taught by the bible. 

 

 

 

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

Further you just claimed that the cross has nothing to do with Ephraim..if the cross has nothing to do with Ephraim then the New Covenant has nothing to do with Ephraim....since the whole point of the New Covenant is atonement for sins...then the promise can not be applied to Ephraim. 

 

The new testament has nothing to do with Ephraim except they are another tribe/tongue/nation to whom salvation is made available. 

You have yet to establish any real connection, except in the comparison of people who had no access to God

 

 

 

 

 

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

It maybe a mystery to you but not to many...but I am beginning to understand why things are a mystery to you...because you dont read what people are telling you...."because you have better things to do" ....then that is not mine or anyone elses problem now is it?

 

I read your attempts to appear wise the first half-dozen times, but you keep repeating yourself as if many words will somehow make it true. There is no reason to read your book again. 

Does it hurt your feelings that I'm not going to waste time reading your entire novel over and over and over?  Then make one point at a time and we can have a conversation. 

 

 

 

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

Lets deal with context shall we

Romans 9:25-26 are verses quoted from Hosea 1:10, which means that the Israelites that were put away in punishment (lost and divorced from God) were not called Gods people. 

It is only under the new covenant, since Jesus "bought back" and redeemed the Israelites for his Father, they are now called the sons of the living God. 

 

Right....all people, including but not limited to Israelites, who were far from God are now allowed access to the Throne of Mercy.  This verse in Romans is spoken to the entirety of planet Earth...not limited to the tribes of Ephraim. 

 

 

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

Hebrews 6:13-14: "For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, saying, 'Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you.'" 

God does NOT change the covenant that He swore by Himself to uphold and apply it to another people other than Israelites! As you so claim....to do so is the very definition of Replacement theology.

Seriously where on earth did God divorce himself from non bioligical israelites?

Your understanding of Paul teaching quoting Hosea...is borderline retardation

 

Insulting my intelligence just because you're frustrated is the sign of a weak mind. Doing so as you pass on odd 2house baloney confirms it. I'll type more slowly for you in the future. 

 

I never said God changes a covenant. Who are you talking to? 

But you've mixed and matched several covenants together. No wonder you're so confused. 

The promise of salvation for Lo Ammi (not my people) has nothing to do with the promise to restore the Tribes of Jacob to each other and their land. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Salty]

1 hour ago, Sister said:

Hi Salty

I havn't answered your last post to me yet, but want to go back to this one again first.

I said this;

 

You answered this;

How do you see those scriptures in Isaiah as having a spiritual meaning?

It's mentioning a child not dying of a few days old, but living out his life until 100yrs.  The child lives to 100 and then he "DIES".  But the child that grows into a sinner dies also at the age of 100, only he dies cursed. 

Fact - both children die when they get old, the blessed and the cursed child.

There is still "death" happening "inside the kingdom" and "outside the kingdom"

Isa 65:17-20
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in My people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
KJV

Firstly, notice verse 17 is a description of God bringing the new heavens and a new earth timing. That means after... the 1,000 years of Rev.20.

And what happens at the very end of the 1,000 years of Rev.20? Both death and hell go into the "lake of fire" and are no more.

So if there are going to be flesh people born and old men living long years but still dying in God's future Eternal Kingdom, then how is that since there will no more be any such thing as 'death'? How will they die?

1 Cor 15:48-50
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

God's future eternal Kingdom is not of the flesh of bodies like we have today. In that future time we are to inherit the "image of the heavenly" type body, which is the "spiritual body" that Apostle Paul taught in 1 Cor.15.

That 'change' to the "spiritual body" is what the future resurrection is about. Per John 5:28-29, Jesus showed on the day of His coming both the "resurrection of life" and the "resurrection of damnation" will occur. That "resurrection of damnation" means the wicked dead will be raised to the spiritual body to go through Christ's future 1,000 years reign of Rev.20.

Isaiah 25 hints to the idea of death being swallowed up in victory, pointing to the vail cast over all peoples being removed on that day. It is pointing to all nations still alive when Jesus comes also being changed to the spiritual body, for that Isaiah 25 chapter is where Paul was pulling from when teaching about death being swallowed up in victory.

That is why, and how I interpret those Isaiah verses you quoted as not being about literal flesh, but as symbolic for that future world to come which is going to be similar in some ways, but different in others.

 

[heyvavhey]

16 hours ago, Salty said:

Quote

 

You are denying the Hosea connection Apostle Paul made between Ephraim and the Christian Church either out of Biblical ignorance, or because you instead want to heed a doctrine of men from somewhere else.

 

No, I'm denying that you have proven one is related to the other. 

 

 

 

Quote

Paul was quoting directly from Hosea 1 & 2 when speaking to Roman Gentile Christians!

Inferring that just because the words are the same in the Old Testament Book of Hosea it still does not involve Christ's Church, is a direct denial of what Paul said in Romans 9, and the Book of Romans is one of the foundation NT Books of Christian doctrine.

 

No it's not. It's a denial of what YOU have imagined it implies.

Different people saying similar words to different audiences millennia apart in no way establishes a connection between the audiences. 

For Ephraim, God was saying they will be restored to their land in the end of days and will know Him.

But for people in Rome, Paul was saying they would be saved apart from becoming Jews, and it had absolutely nothing to do with the land covenant or being restored (as if they could?) to the other tribes of Jacob. 

 

 

 

Quote

For my Christian Brethren that may be interested in further study on this:

 

 

I highly recommend that anyone wanting to know the truth would listen to a real messianic jewish rabbi, instead of self-proclaimed "hebrew scholars" that are uneducated gentiles. 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
KJV

Right there in plain sight, God made a clear distinction between the two separate houses of the children of Israel. So anyone who still denies this matter of the two separate houses after having been shown directly in God's Word have decided to listen to you know who.

 

Wow...you find out that there were 2 divided Kingdoms and this is a revelation to you? That part is pretty obvious. It's the addition of fairy tales and metaphors where you mess up. 

 

 

 

 

Quote

17  For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.
18 And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.
19  And I will betroth thee unto Me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto Me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20  I will even betroth thee unto Me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.

Again, this began especially in the Christian west when those nations began to put away their idols of Baal and instead believed on our Lord Jesus Christ, becoming Christians.

 

There ya go again.

You frankenstein verses from Hosea with a half-verse from John to create an illusion that Ezekiel 37 has something to do with Romans 9

But you can't show a single verse that actually says what you want us to believe God must have meant. Duly noted. 

 

 

 

Quote

21 And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.

23 And I will sow her unto Me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not My people, Thou art My people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.

That part in bold underlined is where Paul quoted to Gentile Roman believers in Romans 9 to the Christian Church.

 

 

First of all, Paul said nothing to the "christian church" because it didn't exist at that time. He was speaking in the synagogue (place of gathering) to the faithful remnant of Jews and those gentiles who were joined to them. 

 

Secondly, this verse from Paul in the book of Romans applies to everyone and it deals with salvation.

The promise made by God to Ephraim in the book of Hosea applies to specific tribes of Jacob and deals with restoring the Tribes of Jacob to their promised land.

If you think those are linked by anything but similar words then you've gone past what the Word actually says into a creation of your own imagination. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2016 by heyvavhey

[heyvavhey]

1 hour ago, WailingWall said:

MATTHEW [24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The words of Jesus

JOHN 10 [14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. [15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. [16] And OTHER SHEEP I HAVE, WHICH ARE NOT OF THIS FOLD: THEM ALSO I MUST BRING, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and ONE SHEPHERD.

I MUST BRING! Jesus said there were “others” not of the fold of the house of Israel. These “others” are the gentiles that hear His voice. Them also He will bring.... Bring where? Bring to heaven as the raptuist claim? Nope. At the time when Jesus does bring us we will have but ONE SHEPHERD.

EZEKIEL 37 [21] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will GATHER THEM on every side, and BRING THEM INTO THEIR OWN LAND: [22]And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:  [23] Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. [24] And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have ONE SHEPHERD:

Jesus gathers His people {in the twinkling of an eye} and  BRINGS them to Israel, to the kingdom. We will have but ONE SHEPHERD

 

 

 

The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel are not gentiles. It includes ALL the tribes of Jacob, including ALL Jews. 

Ezekiel 37 is specific to the tribes of Jacob, and to them ONLY. It was not written to address or include a single gentile or christian. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, WailingWall said:

ISAIAH 56  [6] Also THE SONS OF THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. [8] The Lord God which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, YET WILL I GATHER OTHERS TO HIM, beside those that are gathered unto him.

Jesus brings them to His Holy Mountain. The kingdom rest. Yes, the “others” {John 10v16} {Isaiah 56v8} are the gentiles Heyvavhey. So when the LAST TRUMPET {1Cor.15} sounds we meet the Lord in the air and Jesus “brings” us to His holy mountain in Jerusalem for the kingdom rest. Not off to heaven as the Rapturist claim.

 

 

And you think this is relevant to our discussion because.....???

 

Of course all nations will be in the Kingdom. Duh? That has nothing to do with Ezekiel 37 at all.