Fran C Posted January 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 337 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2017 On 12/24/2016 at 4:28 AM, Hoddie said: No you have not! What you (and plenty of other non-Catholics) have been doing is side-stepping or completely ignoring the questions. So let me put it to you by using a quote from my fellow Catholic 'Real Presence'. "Tell me - in your own words and not by links - WHERE the Protestant Canon of Scripture came from if it was NOT from the Catholic Church.WHEN was it declared?WHO declared it?WHO had the Authority to do so?" I am hoping Matrix you have the courage to break away from your fellow non-Catholic sects and answer these questions honestly. Wait a minute here Matrix! You are saying that in 1Tim.3:15 it says 'God' is the pillar and foundation of truth? Hmmm.... this is interisting because back on page six of this thread you said. "First of all, I use the AKJV Bible", remember? If you do not remember, I sure do. Well, I just so happened to actually look up what the AKJV bible says in 1Tim.3:15, and Lo and Behold it say's ..." But if I tarry long, that you may know how you ought to behave yourself in the house of God, which is the "CHURCH" of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth." Did you see that??? The Church! If you don't beleive me Matrix, look it up for yourself. Now, I would like to extend this to my other non-Catholic brothers and sisters. Do you agree with Matrix that it say's in 1Tim.3:15 that "God" is the Pillar and foundation of truth, or that it say's the "Church" is the Pillar and Foundation of truth? Now it would seem to the average Christian Matrix, what you are doing here is 'adding' to Gods Word by claiming something thats not in the bible.. With this being said Matrix, and me proving that this is not what Scripture say's, would you care to retract your statement? Matrix, just because you added an arrow between God and the pillar dosen't make it so. Reminds me of Martin Luther, Sorry. Peace Hi Hoddie, I'm new here and not sure what's going on! However, I did look up 1 Timothy 3:15 -- If I may, It says that the church (the NASB uses a small case C as does YLT) is the PILLAR of the truth. It upholds the truth. God is the truth, not the church - but the church upholds this truth, within it we can find the truth. As to marriage, I just came on board, but there are some cases where a divorced person MAY remarry. I fall back here to my Catholic doctrine which explains this better than does Protestant doctrine - although I do consider myself to be protestant. Fran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted January 12, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, Fran C said: God is the truth, not the church - but the church upholds this truth, within it we can find the truth. This is exactly true, and it is exactly proof that the rcc is not the church in any sense of the word in SCRIPTURE. (since it does not uphold the truth, truth being Y'SHUA (JESUS HIMSELF) and YHWH'S WORD (SCRIPTURE). You are certainly aware that the rcc overthrows YHWH'S WORD every day with their traditions - simply and directly the traditions that are opposed to Y'SHUA and contrary to YHWH'S WORD. Similar to those who Y'SHUA condemned IN THE NEW TESTAMENT GOSPELS, directly, HIMSELF, because they put the traditions over YHWH'S WORD. IN the lives of ecclesia (the people who are born again) you can observe the truth lived out as they live as Y'SHUA SAYS TO LIVE. You won't find this in rcc or many other buildings/ groups/ organizations. SO, then what ? TEST EVERYTHING. As it is written in THE BIBLE - there are many false teachers and false prophets among us - even many anti-Christs - so all things , every word, every message, every sermon, is TO BE TESTED BY YHWH'S WORD, in prayer, and nothing from YHWH (THE CREATOR) in Y'SHUA will ever contradict HIS WORD, ever. (most sermons and messages and lives do not pass this test, btw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Rabbitt Posted January 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 219 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 190 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/28/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/31/1950 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Hi Jeff, what happens if you and I do not see Scripture the same way. Who's right and who's wrong in that case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran C Posted January 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 337 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, White Rabbitt said: Hi Jeff, what happens if you and I do not see Scripture the same way. Who's right and who's wrong in that case? "You and I" cannot decide who's right and who's wrong. It takes the church to do that. Someone in authority must decide for us. We're not theologians. We may disagree with a doctrine - we cannot agree on all of them - but it's not ups to us to make the doctrine. Take 1 Timothy 3:15 for intance. This was being discussed before. It requires a lot f knowledge to discern a verse in the bible. Some are simple, and some are not so simple. As evidenced here on this thread, two different person had two differet ideas. As you've pointed out - how could we know who is correct. How?? Fran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Rabbitt Posted January 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 219 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 190 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/28/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/31/1950 Share Posted January 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Fran C said: "You and I" cannot decide who's right and who's wrong. It takes the church to do that. Someone in authority must decide for us. We're not theologians. We may disagree with a doctrine - we cannot agree on all of them - but it's not ups to us to make the doctrine. Take 1 Timothy 3:15 for intance. This was being discussed before. It requires a lot f knowledge to discern a verse in the bible. Some are simple, and some are not so simple. As evidenced here on this thread, two different person had two differet ideas. As you've pointed out - how could we know who is correct. How?? Fran How? That's easy. Just listen to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran C Posted January 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 337 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, White Rabbitt said: How? That's easy. Just listen to me. OK. 1 Timothy 3:15 Is it saying that God is he truth or that the church is the truth? Edited January 12, 2017 by Fran C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Rabbitt Posted January 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 219 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 190 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/28/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/31/1950 Share Posted January 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, Fran C said: OK. 1 Timothy 3:15 Is it saying that God is he truth or that the church is the truth? God is the truth. The church should act in truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fran C Posted January 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 337 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2017 Just now, White Rabbitt said: God is the truth. The church should act in truth. Amen. OK. The church is the pillar of the truth - IT is not the truth. Fran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Rabbitt Posted January 12, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 219 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 190 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/28/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/31/1950 Share Posted January 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Fran C said: Amen. OK. The church is the pillar of the truth - IT is not the truth. Fran Sort of like "You are a pillar in the Roman Catholic Church". Something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted January 12, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2017 30 minutes ago, White Rabbitt said: Hi Jeff, what happens if you and I do not see Scripture the same way. Who's right and who's wrong in that case? Good and pertinent (for life) question . It cannot be answered here. I've only heard of one congregation/assembly in the united states that went through YHWH'S DEALING with this when there were differences. There were a few more, that lived in union with Y'SHUA, but I haven't seen their description how they dealt with it when any supposed differences came up. No official group represented online that I know of deals with it the same as YHWH says to. That's about all that can be said here. It is of note, that only those who were and are willing to do all that Y'SHUA says to do are able to hear or see or find out. Those who are not committed for life, no matter what the cost (including torture, imprisonment and death), never find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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