Running Gator Posted December 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.68 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, whatdoIwant2callmyself said: I won't predict what president elect Trump will do when he hasn't even been sworn into office as yet. However, there is a 12 vote difference between the Democrats that voted Yea for this final bill as compared to the Republicans. GovTrak S.2943 Votes: 85-13 Edit: P.S. Shadows, do you have the proof I previously asked you to provide to support this prior statement that you made? Trump himself has said he wants the NSA spying on its own citizens program reinstated, if it were ever actually stopped. Yep, 12 more republicans voted for it than the Dems 48 Repubs and 36 Dems, and with a republican in the White House it will only get worse. Yes, I saw your request and I am done responding to such request, when I do take the time to people just spin it to mean whatever they wish. If people were paying attention during the campaign they would know that Trump is for such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdoIwant2callmyself Posted December 20, 2016 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 187 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2016 51 minutes ago, Out of the Shadows said: Yep, 12 more republicans voted for it than the Dems 48 Repubs and 36 Dems, and with a republican in the White House it will only get worse. Yes, I saw your request and I am done responding to such request, when I do take the time to people just spin it to mean whatever they wish. If people were paying attention during the campaign they would know that Trump is for such things. Then I'll take your prior remarks as a false claim. No one is responsible for proving you're statements. And spin excuses are lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted December 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.68 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2016 14 minutes ago, whatdoIwant2callmyself said: Then I'll take your prior remarks as a false claim. No one is responsible for proving you're statements. And spin excuses are lame. Take it how every you like it. It is not my responsibility to educate people. If they did not pay attention during the campaign that is not my fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdoIwant2callmyself Posted December 20, 2016 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 187 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2016 13 minutes ago, Out of the Shadows said: Take it how every you like it. It is not my responsibility to educate people. If they did not pay attention during the campaign that is not my fault. Wow. Very young. And not at all credible.Thanks for letting me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted December 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.68 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, whatdoIwant2callmyself said: Wow. Very young. And not at all credible.Thanks for letting me know. Unless you are in your 80s, I am not very young. Why do people support a candidate that they don't even know his stance on the issues? Did you follow the campaign at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedByGrace1981 Posted December 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,923 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 462 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/02/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/22/1953 Share Posted December 20, 2016 On 12/18/2016 at 8:09 PM, Out of the Shadows said: Try reading this thread... Looky what I found in reading through this thread! I'll thank you in advance for pinging me when I'm quoted. Especially when the point I was attempting to make is misconstrued. I am NOT okay with government surveillance on its own citizens when it doesn't have probable cause to do so. I thought I made that clear in my postings related to that topic. So if you can propose a law that guarantees government will not do so, I'm all for it. The problem is you cannot propose such a law. No one can. Accepting the fact that bad things are going to happen IS NOT THE SAME as condoning those same bad things. Blessings, -Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted December 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.68 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2016 29 minutes ago, SavedByGrace1981 said: Looky what I found in reading through this thread! I'll thank you in advance for pinging me when I'm quoted. Especially when the point I was attempting to make is misconstrued. I am NOT okay with government surveillance on its own citizens when it doesn't have probable cause to do so. I thought I made that clear in my postings related to that topic. So if you can propose a law that guarantees government will not do so, I'm all for it. The problem is you cannot propose such a law. No one can. Accepting the fact that bad things are going to happen IS NOT THE SAME as condoning those same bad things. Blessings, -Ed You were not the only one in the thread, and not the only one discussing the issue. As for proposing a law that guarantees government will not do something, such a thing can never exist, so should we just sit back and let the government do whatever it wants? In fact no law can guarantees anything, so do we even have them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedByGrace1981 Posted December 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,923 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 462 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/02/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/22/1953 Share Posted December 20, 2016 5 hours ago, Out of the Shadows said: You were not the only one in the thread, and not the only one discussing the issue. I was one of two you quoted, and the impression was left that I condoned government spying on its own citizens, which I do not. As for proposing a law that guarantees government will not do something, such a thing can never exist, so should we just sit back and let the government do whatever it wants? Individuals have little recourse when it comes to gov't abusing its power, that is true. At the most basic level, if the local police invade my house without a search warrant (violation of 4th A), then the only recourse I have is to take it before a judge - who happens to be a government official. Hopefully the judge is honest and just and rules in my favor - but there is no guarantee of that. Such is the way it has always been (gov'ts made up of imperfect individuals) and such is the way it will always be until Our Lord returns. In fact no law can guarantees anything, so do we even have them? Other than the Ten Commandments, laws are pretty flexible and they come and go. When they work - great. When they don't (or when they cause other unforeseen issues), they are repealed. Prohibition was one example. You say you are libertarian, so you should understand this. Blessings, -Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted December 20, 2016 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.68 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 20, 2016 7 minutes ago, SavedByGrace1981 said: Individuals have little recourse when it comes to gov't abusing its power, that is true. At the most basic level, if the local police invade my house without a search warrant (violation of 4th A), then the only recourse I have is to take it before a judge - who happens to be a government official. Hopefully the judge is honest and just and rules in my favor - but there is no guarantee of that. Such is the way it has always been (gov'ts made up of imperfect individuals) and such is the way it will always be until Our Lord returns. I find this a very defeatist attitude. Why do we even bother to have a constitution if we the people are not going to make an effort to force the government to follow it? If our attitude is "well, they are going to do it any how, so why try and stop it" then there is no limit to what they will do, they will take our silence on the issue as consent and just move on to the next freedom to take away. Quote Other than the Ten Commandments, laws are pretty flexible and they come and go. When they work - great. When they don't (or when they cause other unforeseen issues), they are repealed. Prohibition was one example. You say you are libertarian, so you should understand this. As a libertarian I understand that if we do not attempt to stand up to the government and stop their abuses we will have no liberty left at all. I honestly do not understand your attitude at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedByGrace1981 Posted December 21, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,923 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 462 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/02/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/22/1953 Share Posted December 21, 2016 4 hours ago, Out of the Shadows said: I find this a very defeatist attitude. Why do we even bother to have a constitution if we the people are not going to make an effort to force the government to follow it? If our attitude is "well, they are going to do it any how, so why try and stop it" then there is no limit to what they will do, they will take our silence on the issue as consent and just move on to the next freedom to take away. I'm not making myself clear, then. In my example, I cited the 4th Amendment to the Bill of Rights. I stated the FACT that if I were subject to an illegal police search (violating my 4th A rights), I would have the opportunity to stand before a judge. I stated the FACT the judge would be a representative of same said government. I hope the judge would rule in my favor, but it is not guaranteed he/she would do so. As a libertarian I understand that if we do not attempt to stand up to the government and stop their abuses we will have no liberty left at all. I honestly do not understand your attitude at all. We have many avenues to 'stand up' to the government - voting; criticizing elected officials; peacefully protesting; and others. I happen to agree with those. That's my attitude (opinion). What's not to understand? Blessings, -Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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