Anyone know where Christians and only Christians..

[Guest And8]

Assuming of course that you don't mind sharing more.

May I ask how you met these five friends of yours?  Just in general.  Was it off forums, chat rooms, or something else?  How did you meet them and how did you work into making it an email list given that your friends probably did not know each other.  Was it relatively easy for them to accept each other through you and to embrace the idea everyone's emails going to everyone else? 

Are they all Christians?

What types of things do you all discuss as a group?

How long has this little group been happening?

Have you ever had conflicts that were leading to seperation and if so how did you overcome that to stay together? 

If you care to share any more I would very much like to hear any input you could give me on this. 

Thanks.

Carlos

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dont mind sharing at all.

Heard them through a christian bulletin board, had discussions with them (and others at the time), and over time, contacted them individually and asked if we could not set up an email 'pen pal' system. Cannot even remember which bulletin board, it was all years ago. So basically it (finding friends) worked like it would non-electronically - you find people that share an interest, and start talking to them. Only after a few weeks did I ask them individually if they would mind sharing their emails with other friends of mine - and that is how it all started.

They are all christians (and we have all grown in our walk with God and each other), and we discuss anything under the sun. Over the years we have grown so close to each other, that we are totally honest and open about our lives, and share, support and discipline each other on everything.

We have always had the principle of agreeing to disagree (or lets put it this way: love covers EVERYTHING!!!). So even when there is SERIOUS conflict of opinion (or somebody is really put out by having been admonished that he is on a sinful path), we let it stand and people cool off over time. Then sometimes one of us restarts that discussion, and it is amazing how God works. By that time the offended party has been convicted by the Holy Spirit that others have spoken the truth to him, and he has come around - so we are all happy again. Or we find that he wasnt on a sinful path, just had a different way of looking at things, and the person admonishing had grown into accepting a different view. It cuts both ways.

Come to think of it, I think this whole issue is key - love covers EVERYTHING! That way we are not afraid of making mistakes and saying something wrong, on the other hand, when my nose is out of joint by something one of them have said, I will think twice and hard about why they may be saying it. I believe they are saying it to help me, not to harm me. Sure, the selection originally was relatively careful, but hey, I could have selected the wrong guys. I think the Lord just happened to guide us together.

I do consider these guys VERY close friends over the years - something especially us men have a problem with, but which I also believe is essential to have. So many of my needs are met by this group, that I can partake in many other activities like reading hoards of weird messages and receiving barbs (even) on christian bulletin boards, without falling apart.

I do not think it a good idea to introduce you to this group, as we have been going for years, and that raises certain complications. But I would be willing to partake in starting another group of the same nature. Thinking about it as I answer your questions, I think we have some unwritten rules/principles in my group, that I could put down as a draft, and which I think are essential. Thinking about it some more, I think if one had these principles, one could invite more people over time to partake, as long as they agreed to abide by the principles. Let me know what you think.

[Guest And8]

If you are wanting just to start something to fulfill your wants, and desires, and be crafted to suit what you want, then it will fail.

Hmmm, not sure if I agree with the fact that it WILL fail, simply because Carlos is trying to fulfill his needs. Even crafting it to suit what Carlos wants is ok - because God in the first place may have given him that 'want'.

Carlos, does it have to be a church from the word go (I am thinking on my feet here, guys, bear with me)? I know I possibly started this issue by saying eChurch. Possibly what Carlos needs/wants is a group of people with whom he can share, share, share, support, support, support, and grow, grow, grow? One thing we must NEVER forget (teaching ALL we know is fine, as long as it remains as speaking the truth in LOVE) - the Holy Trinity is the one that will convict others on doctrinal issues - NOT US.

[carlos123]

Thanks so much for your responses And8. You are truly blessed to be involved in such a group. Now multiply that by 1000 fold and think of how God could use such a thing!!!!

All being independent groups yet sharing a common bond in Christ. Decentralized church!

I see great potential for the Lord to use something like that over the Internet. What you have seen happen among just your friends I believe God might want to use, through multiplication, to bless a great many others. So YEAH for sure I am interest in hearing your draft proposal of guidelines. I am all ears my friend.

I wonder if we should go private with this though as there are a lot of questions I would like to ask you about your beliefs, how you became a Christian, and so forth that really have nothing to do with this thread not to mention that you and/or I might feel more comfortable sharing in private. That is if you don't mind sharing these things with me. Would that be alright And8? If so just PM me an email address where I can reach you and I will email you.

I generally don't like holding conversations through this little box on the screen provided by the forum and much prefer email.

Shiloh there is something I wanted to share with you that came to mind as I thought about what I last posted.

Namely this. I REALLY appreciate the way you have interacted with me in this thread bro (I hope you don't me calling you that). Sometimes I know I may not have come accross as appreciating what you were saying but I just want you to know that deep down I am very thankful for your taking the time to share your thoughts with me. If nothing else they have helped me to all the more understand what happens in many churches, where the problems may lie, and some things that the Lord might want me to keep in mind in the future. In that regard the kind of discussion we have been having is tremendously valuable to me and I thank you for it!!! You too Dave, Saved by Grace (Wayne), Gerioke, and everyone else who has posted on this thread. I feel greatly blessed to have had this discussion!!! Not to end the discussion or anything if anyone wants to continue it but I just wanted to share that from my heart.

I never in my wildest imagination thought this thread would go as long as it has or involve as much discussion as it has but I thank God that it has crystallized and made things clear for me in a way that only such an open discussion could have done.

Carlos

[Guest shiloh357]

If I were a pastor I would hold to what I believe, but I would permit you to do as you wish, and any woman who wants to wear a headcovering is free to do so, so long as they are not pushy about it.

[Guest And8]

In the case of the church at Corinth, Paul's letters to them were in response to questions they had for him. He was not necessarily dictating protocol for everyone, but was dealing with issues specific and unique to the congregation in that city. Paul was not dictating universal protocol for the whole church, he was just answering questions.

I think herein lies the rub of the whole discussion - Paul was speaking the truth, whether anybody wanted to heed it or not. AND he relied totally on the Holy Spirit convicting the people, not he himself, kind of like saying 'wear the shoe if it fits, and let the Holy Spirit (not Paul) make it fit appropriately'. I think this is the principle on which the whole Bible functions?!

There is also a huge difference between judging (should be left exclusively to God) and teaching (which we are called upon to do). Also, one needs to bear in mind that 'making disciples' is more important than being a pharisee and prescribing to everybody what they must or must not do.

[Guest Romano7]

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[carlos123]

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Hi Romano7 (boy there must be a lot of Ronano's here to neccesitate your making yourself number 7 ).

All the little dots before your smiley appear to imply that there is some measure of profound thought that you have yet to share with us and I was wondering, if the eloquence of your dots could be expanded into words, to more adequately describe what it was that led to the final smiley

Carlos

[Gerioke]

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Hi Romano7 (boy there must be a lot of Ronano's here to neccesitate your making yourself number 7 ).

Carlos 123????how many carlos'

[carlos123]

What I am still hearing (or reading) is that for a church to be worthy of YOUR involvement, they have to conform to YOUR understanding of what you see being commanded in Scripture.

Not sure why you are hearing that from me. It's possible I suppose that there might a problem there with my perspective but I am not convicted of that.

From my perspective bro it has absolutely not the slightest thing to do with a church being worthy of MY involvement. That would be absolutely, incredibly, hugely, arrogant of me don't you think?

And to think that a church would have to conform to MY understanding of the Scriptures...well....I would be aghast at such arrogance in anyone.

The issue bro is not MY involvement or MY understanding. The issue is what does God say and if what he says is clear then let's all do it. The focus is on Him and what He says. Not on me.

There is this notion in the Christian world bro, that goes something like this....the Word is perfect. God has described His will to us through it. It contains truth for us to live by. BUT we are imperfect and prone to faulty thinking. Self-centered and otherwise prone to sin. SO we are simply incapable of coming to agreement in the things of God. With the net result that we as Christians have come to believe that division is acceptable in this life...because...well....we just can't read the same English words in the Bible and agree on what they say! Division is considered par for the course so to speak.

I say hogwash! God wants us to have united thinking, He has commanded it, and by His Spirit I think it is possible to have it.

So the solution that I see Shiloh is not to cater to MY understanding. It is not for me to expect others to live by MY understanding. MY understanding has very little to do with anything. The solution is to look at the Word to see if what I am saying is what IT says. If it is then we need to follow it. If not then I need to be corrected in my wrong understanding.

It's a subtle shift in emphasis, but an important one from me (and my understanding) to the Word.

No concessions made for you, would suffice.

If you mean concessions regarding what the Lord says to do in the Word then no. I don't accept such concessions nor would I encourage anyone else to do so either. Either God is to be obeyed and trusted in ALL that He commands or we are no better than those who pick and choose what they will obey from the Bible.

No allowances made accommodate your worship preferences would be enough.

If it's a matter of preference bro no problem. You might like rock and roll Christian music. I light the lighter more contemplative music. No sweat. It's a prefernce. If on the other hand, it's a matter of where a so-called "preference" is in reality something that other Christians are in bondage about then no, I cannot make allowances for that and would shout about that from the housetops to all who would hear of the freedom that they should have in Christ to worship with their whole being. Big difference here bro between a preference and something that keeps Christians in bondage with respect to worship.

Your understanding and application of Scripture is (in your eyes) THE way to do it,

I would think that EVERY Christian would be doing it the way they see the Scriptures saying to do it bro .

...and any pastor or church leader who doesn't agree with you, is "ignoring the Word of God." 

Not quite. Again a matter of emphasis bro. Any pastor who knows what the Bible says to do or not do and ignores it, that pastor is definitely ignoring the Word of God. If they don't know what it says or disagree with what it says for what are legitimate Biblical reasons then no, I would not say that they are ignoring the Word of God.

You may not like the phraseoloy there, but that is how you are coming across. 

It's not a matter of what I like or don't like bro. What I like or not has nothing to do with it. The only thing that matters is what the Word says. I don't have perfect understanding in what it says so if you or anyone else can point to wrong thinking about what IT says on my part, by all means I am all ears. But if the wrongness here is my wanting to apply and teach what it says to all who will listen...well...I beg to differ about the wrongness of such an approach.

Unless you have unfettered rights to go through the congregation and convince every one to worship the way you do, you are just not going to be satisfied. 

Again not quite bro. Unless I have freedom to not only worship God with my WHOLE being myself but also to help others overcome hesitation to worship God with their WHOLE being I will not be satisfied. It's got absolutely nothing to do with the way I worship (as though the principals of freedom allowing me to worship as I do could not possibly apply to anyone else). It's got everything to do with the freedom to worship God in freedom and with our whole being. Without being unduly restricted by human tradition or fears.

I am NOT trying to defend myself in all this bro. Nor am I offended in the least by anything you have said. If I am wrong then I am wrong. God opposes the proud and if I am walking in arrogant pride I would rather be on the side of admitting my arrogance and repenting before God than to remain obstinate.

I am simply pointing out what I see as a wrong emphasis on ME in what you are saying and a discounting of what the Word says. I see that as the real problem here bro. To the degree that my explanations are in line with the what the Word says then we need to do what the Word says. Plain and simple. If my understanding is not in line with the Word then it needs to be corrected.

All I see instead is statements to the effect that the problem is me. When the very nature of any problem having to do with me lies not in me per se but in what I believe the Word says. Again the Word is where the problem is bro in terms of my understanding of what God says through it. Show me the error of my thinking with respect to what the Word says and I will be the first to humble myself and agree with your points.

Carlos

[carlos123]

Carlos 123????how many carlos'

Ahh...caught red handed I am

I got that name because there apparently were indeed 122 other Carlos's at Yahoo. Carlos123 was my Yahoo nickname once a long time ago. I kept using it all over the place and now when I sign up for most anything of a non-private nature I just keep using the old Yahoo handle.

You strike me as being very observant Gerioke

Carlos