Roman Catholic Church Unknown In Holy Writ!

[Giaour]

Please do not close this thread or stop the discussion, some of us are not posting but reading it intensely. I am learning a lot of information that I did not know before. I went to catholic school but am not a catholic. I will be reading in the shadows. Carry on , please.

Gia

[Fiosh]

I'm not going to debate with jc49; if I do the thread will surely be closed.

All I will say is this....

You may listen to the rantings of a few misinformed individuals, or you may pick up a Catholic Catechism, the Vatican II documents, or any writings by John Paul II and decide for yourself what the Catholic Church teaches. You may not agree...ok. But at least you will have accurate information, instead of a biased opinion, with which to disagree.

Ask yourself, if all what you read in this post were true why were Mother Teresa, St. Augustine, St. Francis, and millions of intelligent men & women who love Jesus with all their hearts, Catholic?

Maybe you think the RCC has some practices you don't agree with-I can understand that. But trust me, we are not the bungling idiots descibed in some of the posts I've read here.

Peace,

Fiosh

RCC and glad to be

(cool, that rhymed ! )

PS. Most RCC's I know own & read the Bible ;and love Jesus and accept Him as their personal Saviour.

[Botz]

I think this is a very frank and open discussion with some heart searching observations about what are perceived as strange doctrines within the Roman Catholic Church.

Fiosh...

I'm not going to debate with jc49; if I do the thread will surely be closed.

I had a good read over what jc49 wrote several times...although I can see that for a Catholic it would be intensely challenging/threatening...I do not see it in anyway as being insulting or derogatory...or trying to 'bash'....quite the opposite in fact because what I see is the desire to expose and discuss what seem to be clearly unbiblical teachings...and give examples of how the teachings have impacted the lives of many Catholic people. I see a deep concern and love of people coming from what has been written.

My own Church in the UK was asked to provide teachers last year to go to Poland and teach a group of 1,300 Catholics the Gospel. These dear people had all left the RCC because they could not find G-d in it and had no sort of relationship with Jesus. They had a great zeal and would lie prone for hours in a cruciform position trying to experience something of the suffering that Messiah went through...but their zeal was not according to truth. They were so hungry for the reality of G-d and the vast majority including nuns and a bishop/cardinal were all 'born again'.

I do not doubt that there are many 'saved' people amongst the Catholics...but promoting,teaching and defending doctrines that are clearly unbiblical places many a stumbling block before them and those that they would share the Gospel with.

John 8:36 If therefore the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

In Messiah. Botz.

[Fiosh]

I think this is a very frank and open discussion with some heart searching observations about what are perceived as strange doctrines within the Roman Catholic Church.

Fiosh...

I'm not going to debate with jc49; if I do the thread will surely be closed.

I had a good read over what jc49 read several times...although I can see that for a Catholic it would be intensely challenging/threatening...I do not see it in anyway as being insulting or derogatory...or trying to 'bash'....quite the opposite in fact because what I see is the desire to expose and discuss what seem to be clearly unbiblical teachings...and give examples of how the teachings have impacted the lives of many Catholic people. I see a deep concern and love of people coming from what has been written.

My own Church in the UK was asked to provide teachers last year to go to Poland and teach a group of 1,300 Catholics the Gospel. These dear people had all left the RCC because they could not find G-d in it and had no sort of relationship with Jesus. They had a great zeal and would lie prone for hours in a cruciform position trying to experience something of the suffering that Messiah went through...but their zeal was not according to truth. They were so hungry for the reality of G-d and the vast majority including nuns and a bishop/cardinal were all 'born again'.

I do not doubt that there are many 'saved' people amongst the Catholics...but promoting,teaching and defending doctrines that are clearly unbiblical places many a stumbling block before them and those that they would share the Gospel with.

John 8:36 If therefore the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

In Messiah. Botz.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With all due respect, Botz, I would not base my own opinions of the teachings of any "denomination" upon the example of a few "believers".

I would not judge "fundamentalists" by Jim Jones and his grape Kool-aid gang.

Again, I reiterate, if you disagree with what the RCC teaches, I understand. But, at least take the time to know what it teaches. There are a billion RCC's in the world. Even if 1 million of them are not true to the faith, doesn't demonstrate that the teachings are wrong. Even 1/12 of the original church was in grievous error.

If we had judged Jesus' teachings by the actions of Judas.......

I love my Christian brothers and sisters of all denominations...and those w/o.

All I ask is a fair evaluation.

Granted folks are free to post their opinions. I realize that you see me as "lost" and the RCC as a false religion, so you feel the need to "protect" your members. So, if you take jc49's post and substitute "fundamentalists" everywhere he refers to RCC, it would never had gotten thru the editors.

I accept that this is a "fundamentalist" site and I try to interact the best I can w/o being offensive and yet still maintain my integrity. But, when I see outright untruths about the RCC, I can't keep silent, even if it means I get booted.

In His Love,

Fiosh

[jc49]

I'm not going to debate with jc49; if I do the thread will surely be closed.

All I will say is this....

You may listen to the rantings of a few misinformed individuals, or you may pick up a Catholic Catechism, the Vatican II documents, or any writings by John Paul II and decide for yourself what the Catholic Church teaches. You may not agree...ok. But at least you will have accurate information, instead of a biased opinion, with which to disagree.

Ask yourself, if all what you read in this post were true why were Mother Teresa, St. Augustine, St. Francis, and millions of intelligent men & women who love Jesus with all their hearts, Catholic?

Maybe you think the RCC has some practices you don't agree with-I can understand that.  But trust me, we are not the bungling idiots descibed in some of the posts I've read here.

Peace,

Fiosh

RCC and glad to be

(cool, that rhymed ! )   

PS.  Most RCC's I know own & read the Bible ;and love Jesus and accept Him as their personal Saviour.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shalom

my dear friend Dad Lilli ( he is with the Lord now) when he was young during the period in which Benito Mussolini,the Fascist Dictator that ruled Italy with an iron fist and signed The Lateranenses Pact giving Great Power to THE VATICAN,as I was saying,Dad Lilli who was a born again christian was arrested an put in PRISON,cause the RCC priests denounced him to the authority...because he was a thief? a murderer?a pedophile? NO! because he was witnessing for Jesus and preaching salvation in Christ BY GRACE through FAITH.I remember Dad Lilli in the late 70's standing up in church and glorifying God for the GIFT of SALVATION,he was an example of faith and humilty..All his family got saved and his son is Pastor of The International Evangelical Church in Rome,Via Chiovenda( www.ceiam.net).

So anyone can verify that I ma not saying anything but the truth to the glory of God.You in America,dear saints,don't know that the Evangelicals have been bitterly persecuted by the RCC...You might ask yourselves WHY?

Well,as I said the RCC in Italy DOMINATES ( we had even 40 plus years of Christian Democrats government after the end of Worldwar2...and all the Prime Ministers were super RCC..see GIULIO ANDREOTTI for example)..and anyone who converts to Christ flees the RCC and so the RCC loses control and power.

BTW,if the RCC preaches "CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED" why persecute other christians that don't flock under her wings?..ask yourself and research www.carm.org or www.apologeticsindex.org to understand the teachings of the RCC.

About St.Augustine I can say that with his " spiritualization interpretation" of the Holy Bible he has damaged the correct understanding of God's plan for us all.And I have no intention whatsoever to criticize neither Francis of Assisi neither Mother Theresa.

I know that in THAT DAY THE LORD the RIGHTEOUS JUDGE will judge PERFECTLY,He does it already btw,and I know that I for one take refuge in JESUS CHRIST NOW and so anyone who is in CHRIST is saved and safe...wherever he comes from...the RCC or the little indipendent Evangelical church downtown somewhere ...I know that we all fail in many things and unless we are in Christ the would be NO HOPE for nobody,starting with me.I am not a" super duper saint" "holier than thou" "superspiritual believer" in some hyped up congregation...I owe to Jesus love and mercy my salvation and the fact that He keeps me saved..I couldn't last a microsecond and I couldn't please God in the slightest...so I sin everyday even when I think...I am in the continual conflict of which the apostle Paul talks about in Romans ch 7 and thatnks be to God find my deliverance in Chist in Romans ch 8,just like Paul did and every other believer in this AGE of GRACE.

To GOD and only to GOD goes ALL THE GLORY 4EVER!

Every church does practice some rituals that are somehow wrong or not perfectly in line with the Bible, at least I have seen that,but nobody should compromise on SALVATION BY GRACE through FAITH and that JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY to THE FATHER,for me,for you for everybody.I meaan THE ETRNAL DESTINY in HEAVEN or HELL is AT THE STAKE for MILLIONS of SOULS!!!JESUS had to give HIS HOLY PERFECT LIFE to save us,so I presume that the subject of saving souls is still a priority with God.and so who are we to change HIS PLAN ?

All said I love you in Jesus and I pray that He will save more and more everiday till HIS GLORIOUS APPEARING SOON!!

SHALOM and MARANATHA!!

[Shane]

Well said jc49

I am one of those saved from th Catholic church. When I started understanding the Gospel of Grace I could not stay in the RCC.

One of my true concerns is the liberal thinking of so many Christians.

[WayneB]

Fiosh -

I believe it was only in that one thread you were asked not to "promote Roman Catholic doctrine," and that was done so because it distracted from the purpose of the thread.  So, it's OK to debate the subject in a thread designed for debate!

I might add, the mod who spoke this seems to have a sensitivity to this area.

Nebula, you are mostly right.

The purpose of this thread is to challenge the doctrine of The Roman Catholic Church and I fully expect and respect Fiosh's (and other Catholics) right to defend her beliefs.

Regarding my sensitivity to the doctrine, I am sensitive to any doctrine that contradicts the Word of God as the Holy Spirit gives understanding. Yes, I was a cradle Catholic but that doesn't effect my judgement. Actually, I usually stay away from these sort of threads UNLESS I receive a report, which was the case in the other thread.

Sister Fiosh, you keep saying, "I realize that you see me as "lost" and the RCC as a false religion." PLEASE, for the millionth time, let me state that the two statements are UNrelated. YES, I see the Catholic faith as false BUT I do not see you as "lost" (deceived maybe). IF anyone ever judges your eternal destiny, hit the Report a Post button and I will personally delete their post. You have stated clearly that you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord & Savior and that is good enough for me to call you "sister".

Brother Botz, excellent post brother.

Bless you saints,

Wayne

[William Putnam]

Fiosh -

I believe it was only in that one thread you were asked not to "promote Roman Catholic doctrine," and that was done so because it distracted from the purpose of the thread.

[WayneB]

For you, Saved by Grace, do you have any idea why I have not heard from any moderator, or administrator or the owner of this forum why they have not replied to my pleas for a judgment on my use of links to Catholic sources? I have sent at least two E-mails to have this issue resolved.

I am despirately trying to quell the funny feeling that you guys simply want me to go away quietly, so you do not have to make a judgment.

[Botz]

Hi Fiosh. Apols for not getting back sooner...my computer has been 'down' for a day or so.

With all due respect, Botz, I would not base my own opinions of the teachings of any "denomination" upon the example of a few "believers".

I would not judge "fundamentalists" by Jim Jones and his grape Kool-aid gang.

Again, I reiterate, if you disagree with what the RCC teaches, I understand. But, at least take the time to know what it teaches. There are a billion RCC's in the world. Even if 1 million of them are not true to the faith, doesn't demonstrate that the teachings are wrong. Even 1/12 of the original church was in grievous error

I don't base my opinions about Roman Catholic doctrine upon the example of a few Believers...I base it on what the Roman Catholic Church overtly and uncompromisingly teaches.

Jim Jones was more a 'mentalist' than a 'fundamentalist'.

It is not a question of how many Catholics there are in the world...that lends weight to the teachings of Rome...it is whether what is taught lines up with the word of G-d.

I love my Christian brothers and sisters of all denominations...and those w/o.

All I ask is a fair evaluation.

Thats great...so do I...and I try very hard to evaluate fairly.

Granted folks are free to post their opinions. I realize that you see me as "lost" and the RCC as a false religion, so you feel the need to "protect" your members. So, if you take jc49's post and substitute "fundamentalists" everywhere he refers to RCC, it would never had gotten thru the editors.

You have somehow got the total wrong end of the stick...I do not see you as 'lost' at all...I think your relationship with the L-rd shines out of you. I do not so much see RCC as a false religion...that would be to put it on a par with Mormonism...or Islam or something similar. Personally I see the teaching and the history of the Roman Catholic Church presenting a 'mixture' and rather than cleansing out much of the old leaven it has insisted on maintaining its 'status quo'....as a result like one brother has already mentioned...through this institution it is highly likely that millions of souls have been lost or misled.

There is great loyalty amongst Catholics to their Holy Mother Church and books and books of apologetics defending Catholic doctrine have been written by immensely learned and gifted individuals that would tie a bloke like me up in knots...but I would still say many of the teachings of Rome have more to do with preserving 'identity' and defending spurious home-grown doctrines than actually 'acting' on the words of Jesus.

By saying these things I in no way discount the many truely born again Believers that thrive within the auspices of the RCC who like my brother Wayne I am honoured to call 'brethren'...but I am still somewhat at a loss to understand how many of them can 'operate' within such controversial confines...like I said before it must be a 'loyalty' based motivation...where it is perhaps too painful to contemplate 'divorce'...but I am just guessing.

I accept that this is a "fundamentalist" site and I try to interact the best I can w/o being offensive and yet still maintain my integrity. But, when I see outright untruths about the RCC, I can't keep silent, even if it means I get booted

.

If you see untruths about the RCC I can understand you correcting and defending...some Catholic brethren here have taken me aside several times and opened my eyes to a couple of my misconceptions that I appreciated and accepted.

I wonder if there have been some things that you have been unable to defend about the RCC because you are eventually persuaded through Scripture and the conviction of the Holy Ghost they are incorrect...or maybe that doesn't happen?

No one is going to boot you Fiosh...and never be afraid to write what you believe about something. As Christians we should feel free to argue strongly and passionately about what we see as right without fear of what others may think or say.

Shalom in Messiah. Botz