Guest shiloh357 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 2 hours ago, MyLordsServant said: In regards to suicide: "Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple." 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 You are completely misinterpreting that verse. Paul is not referring in THIS particular verse to individuals as temples of the Lord. He is speaking of Church corporately as God's temple. And anyone who seeks to destroy the Church, God will destroy. Quote Refer also to the parable in Matthew 18:21-35. "Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34 In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. 35 "This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart" If you can't forgive, then God won't forgive you. So is God going to beat you and torture you in heaven? No, that's what hell is for. Every passage you cite you completely miss the point of what the author is trying to convey. This is not talking about salvation. It is talking about walking in unforgiveness and what will happen to us, here, in THIS life if we live in unforgiveness. We will be punished for living in unforgiveness here in the here and now. This does not reference either heaven or hell. It is not talking about eternity. It is talking about undergoing the severe discipline of God, of God removing his hand of protection and allowing to suffer consequences of unforgiveness against other people. Quote The verse is entirely in context. Christians are Israel, "You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise." Wrong. Christians are not Israel. Israel is not recognized through Abraham. Israel is recognized through Jacob, who is called Israel. The NT never spiritualizes Israel to refer to the Church. The Church and Israel are radically separate in the NT. Furthermore, if you read Matt. 24 it is speaking to Jews in Israel, as Israel will be on earth during the Tribulation, not the Church. Quote If even the elect(Christians) can be deceived, then what you said isn't true. The Church will not be here during the Tribulation to be deceived. The Bible also refers to Israel as God's elect. Quote Also what you said is contradictory. You're saying Christians "will not descend into the morass of a living in sin", if they are true Christians. But everyone sins, so are you saying no one can be a true Christian? No, I am making a distinction between the fact that all of us do stumble at times in a sincere attempt to serve the Lord, and those who live in sin, habitually as a lifestyle. Those who live in sin prove that they never were born again, because a true Christian is a transformed person, a new Creature in Christ. Quote "A true Christian cannot sin and enjoy it long enough to live in it". That's not how deception and falling into sin works. There is no barrier that automatically stops you from completely falling away. Yes, there is. Salvation isn't a matter of simply being moved from one side of the ledger to the other. It is not merely a change in status. It is complete transformation in that you have a new heart and a new set of desires. You are a new person. I would never hurt an infant. I have the power to, but there is no way I could ever hurt an infant because there is nothing in me that would prompt such a thing. The very thought of it is offensive. In the same way, there is nothing in me that would prompt me to fall away, to forsake the Lord. There is nothing in me that would even think about going one step in that direction. I won't fall out of salvation because I don't want out. And the Bible says that I am sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day I receive my inheritance. In Salvation, we don't keep ourselves saved. You are good enough and don't have the power to do so. If you could keep yourself saved, YOU would be the Savior, not Jesus. It is Jesus who keeps us and not we ourselves. Salvation is 100% a work of God. You play no part in, or add nothing to salvation. When I look at Jesus on the cross, I see his bloody mangled, broken body impaled there. To see Him there on the cross and think that there is anything I can add to that, is just pure arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4LdKHVCzRDj2 Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,453 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 1,453 Days Won: 6 Joined: 11/02/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1991 Share Posted December 4, 2017 4 hours ago, MyLordsServant said: Does a consistently hateful/violent person have salvation? I doesn't seem so. But only the Lord knows. "There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another?" - James 4:12 4 hours ago, MyLordsServant said: What about willing sin? A person that is born again will not be comfortable when practicing willful sin. It is something we all should get rid of as soon as possible. "If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth." - 1 John 1:6 "Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”" - 2 Timothy 2:19 We all sin, but it is not something that should become an habit or an acceptable choice for us Christians. Seek help and guidance from the Lord Jesus; He will set you free. "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened." - Matthew 7:7-8 4 hours ago, MyLordsServant said: and even the elect will be deceived. The elect cannot be deceived. Those are His sheep. "And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. Yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”" - John 10:4-5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLordsServant Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 479 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 171 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/18/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 7 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Those who live in sin prove that they never were born again, because a true Christian is a transformed person, a new Creature in Christ. Do you live in sin? If yes, then you were never born again. If no, then this: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8, NKJV" 11 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Yes, there is. Salvation isn't a matter of simply being moved from one side of the ledger to the other. It is not merely a change in status. It is complete transformation in that you have a new heart and a new set of desires. You are a new person. I would never hurt an infant. I have the power to, but there is no way I could ever hurt an infant because there is nothing in me that would prompt such a thing. The very thought of it is offensive. In the same way, there is nothing in me that would prompt me to fall away, to forsake the Lord. There is nothing in me that would even think about going one step in that direction. I won't fall out of salvation because I don't want out. And the Bible says that I am sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day I receive my inheritance. In Salvation, we don't keep ourselves saved. You are good enough and don't have the power to do so. If you could keep yourself saved, YOU would be the Savior, not Jesus. It is Jesus who keeps us and not we ourselves. Salvation is 100% a work of God. You play no part in, or add nothing to salvation. When I look at Jesus on the cross, I see his bloody mangled, broken body impaled there. To see Him there on the cross and think that there is anything I can add to that, is just pure arrogance. I think you have little idea of how powerful deception is. Salvation comes through faith. If you lose faith through deception, then where is your salvation? Consider this, if you throw a frog into boiling water it'll jump out. If you slowly heat the water until boiling, the frog will stay there until it dies. This is exactly how powerful satans deception is. You won't notice it. It will be so gentle and over a long period of time, that you'll be destroyed before you realize it. You and Yowm keep referring to, "salvation is from God not us", as if I'm implying the opposite. There is a difference between being given salvation(of God), and walking away from it after receiving it. I'm referring to the latter. Do a quick spin and look at all the churches today, how far many of them have strayed from scripture. You realize one of them could have been like you, who thought they would never be deceived? Jesus doesn't tie a chain around your leg, once you accept him. Consider this, Jesus brings you onto a mountain and says, "stay here until I return. If I return and you're not here, I will leave without you". If you decided to walk down that mountain, that is only by your own free will. Satan could be down there flashing a signal, slowly driving you down. Jesus doesn't have you chained up on that mountain. If you believe that you can't be deceived, then the enemy has already deceived you! Paul warned of this kind of arrogance when he said: Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. (1 Corinthians 3:18, NKJV). It is in our own self assured arrogance and wisdom that we deceive ourselves. John warned: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1:8, NKJV). I'm not calling you arrogant by the way, I took the quote from someone else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLordsServant Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 479 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 171 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/18/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Yowm said: So why not give us your take as to when one loses their salvation? The point where you fall away; Make a 180° turn away from Jesus. Little by little, deception adds a degree off the narrow path. Edited December 4, 2017 by MyLordsServant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jude1:3 Posted December 4, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 391 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 158 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2017 5 hours ago, shiloh357 said: Jesus' death on the cross even paid for suicide. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that No Murderer Has Eternal Life Abiding In Him. • 1 John 3:15 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and Murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. • Revelation 22:14-15 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 6 hours ago, MyLordsServant said: Do you live in sin? If yes, then you were never born again. If no, then this: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8, NKJV"I I commit sins from time to time. I do not live in sin. You need to learn the difference between committing a sin and living habitually in sin. Quote I think you have little idea of how powerful deception is. Salvation comes through faith. If you lose faith through deception, then where is your salvation? How does one lose faith through deception? I am not sure what that means. You apparently don't understand how faith works, or what it is. Quote Consider this, if you throw a frog into boiling water it'll jump out. If you slowly heat the water until boiling, the frog will stay there until it dies. This is exactly how powerful satans deception is. You won't notice it. It will be so gentle and over a long period of time, that you'll be destroyed before you realize it. I understand how powerful Satan's deception is. I simply don't attribute more power to Satan than the Holy Spirit who lives in me, who keeps me and preserves me from Satan's deceptions. There are lots of people who deceived into thinking they are saved for reasons that have nothing to do with Jesus. There are deceived people who think they are saved because they were sprinkled as an infant, or because they were raised in church or because they give to charities or whatever. THAT is where the deception really lies. It lies in people who are deceived into a false idea of what it means to be a Christian. They are religious, and think that their religion will take them to heaven. Quote You and Yowm keep referring to, "salvation is from God not us", as if I'm implying the opposite. Your approach makes YOU the Savior, not Jesus. From the approach you take, salvation is ultimately man-centered and depends on YOU keeping yourself from deception and depends on you living the right way and doing the right thing. Quote There is a difference between being given salvation(of God), and walking away from it after receiving it. I'm referring to the latter. Do a quick spin and look at all the churches today, how far many of them have strayed from scripture. You realize one of them could have been like you, who thought they would never be deceived? The problem is that a true Christian won't walk away. I gave the illustration which you ignored, of how I don't have the will to cause harm to a baby and that just as there is nothing in me to cause harm to a baby, there is nothing in me that would ever prompt me to walk away from the Lord. Salvation changes your heart. It changes your heart into a heart that longs to serve the Lord above all else. There are people who convert to the Christian religion, but never become followers or disciples of Jesus, never actually get born again. Quote Jesus doesn't tie a chain around your leg, once you accept him. He doesn't have to do that. If you are truly saved, there is nothing in you that would want to forsake Him. Quote Consider this, Jesus brings you onto a mountain and says, "stay here until I return. If I return and you're not here, I will leave without you". If you decided to walk down that mountain, that is only by your own free will. Satan could be down there flashing a signal, slowly driving you down. Jesus doesn't have you chained up on that mountain. No, that is not how it works. Jesus doesn't leave us by ourselves. He left, but He sent us another Comforter, namely the Holy Spirit. Jesus said that He would be with us always, even to the end of the world. So your analogy doesn't really fit how Jesus operates. We are never left on our own until He returns. Quote If you believe that you can't be deceived, then the enemy has already deceived you! Paul warned of this kind of arrogance when he said: Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. (1 Corinthians 3:18, NKJV). I never said I can't be deceived. I said that I am kept, preserved and sealed by the Holy Spirit and it is the Holy Spirit who lives and operates in me to preserve me from Satan's deception. Quote It is in our own self assured arrogance and wisdom that we deceive ourselves. John warned: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1:8, NKJV). I'm not calling you arrogant by the way, I took the quote from someone else. My assurance doesn't rest in me; it rests in the keeping power of the Holy Spirit who is always empowering me to live for Christ and who is the source of my desire to live in holiness and to grow as He conforms me into the image of Christ. I am not keeping myself; He keeps me and holds me. My salvation, thankfully does not depend on me to get everything right. My salvation rests upon Jesus Christ and His finished work on the cross. That is what my faith rests upon. And that is the ONLY reason I am saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
books Posted December 5, 2017 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 64 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 59 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/08/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2017 These things you're describing in your original post are works of the flesh. A Christian is to live and walk by the Spirit. Please read Galatians chapter five. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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