Paul James Posted April 28, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted April 28, 2020 1 minute ago, johnthebaptist said: If someone is "speaking in tongues" to show off, then a person isn't speaking in tongues. That has nothing to do with the question I put on the thread. When a person is praying in private to God, who is he showing off to? I have been associated with Pentecostals and Charismatics for the last 53 years and I have never encountered anyone speaking in tongues just to show off. But I have seen many worshiping the Lord with tongues, with their eyes closed and hearts lifted up to the Lord. If you are calling that showing off when you were in the service, I wonder where your heart and eyes were at the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Posted April 28, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted April 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said: We have two great commandments to obey, that we love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and to love our neighbors as ourselves (Matt 22:34-40). It would be a waste of time to see who does, and doesn't speak, in tongues, and who does it the most, I think. So, pouring cold water on those who prefer to worship the Lord with tongues is loving Jesus with all one's heart and loving their neighbour as themselves? Just askin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted April 28, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.31 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted April 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Paul James said: That has nothing to do with the question I put on the thread. When a person is praying in private to God, who is he showing off to? I have been associated with Pentecostals and Charismatics for the last 53 years and I have never encountered anyone speaking in tongues just to show off. But I have seen many worshiping the Lord with tongues, with their eyes closed and hearts lifted up to the Lord. If you are calling that showing off when you were in the service, I wonder where your heart and eyes were at the time? I don't see how speaking in tongues has anything to do with either of the two great commandments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Posted April 28, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted April 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said: I don't see how speaking in tongues has anything to do with either of the two great commandments. You could ask those who have been praying in tongues to the Lord for years and see what they have to say about it. If you have never prayed in tongues because of being taught for years that it is not of God and that anyone who speaks or prays in tongues is in the flesh or even the devil, then I would wonder if you would have the knowledge or experience to make that comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted April 28, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.31 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted April 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Paul James said: So, pouring cold water on those who prefer to worship the Lord with tongues is loving Jesus with all one's heart and loving their neighbour as themselves? Just askin'... I think worshipping the Lord includes two things: Love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted April 28, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.31 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted April 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Paul James said: You could ask those who have been praying in tongues to the Lord for years and see what they have to say about it. If you have never prayed in tongues because of being taught for years that it is not of God and that anyone who speaks or prays in tongues is in the flesh or even the devil, then I would wonder if you would have the knowledge or experience to make that comment. Paul didn't say you couldn't pray silently in tongues. He said not to speak in tongues out loud unless someone is there to interpret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Posted April 28, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted April 28, 2020 19 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said: Paul didn't say you couldn't pray silently in tongues. He said not to speak in tongues out loud unless someone is there to interpret. So, you do support a person in his private prayer room, praying in tongues to God. How about my close friend in a prayer meeting being told by a Ghanaian brother that he was praying in the brother's own rural village dialect, and speaking about the wonderful works of God? And when I was praying in tongues during a church service one Sunday night, Mrs Samuels, a NZ Maori friend told me that I was praising God in the Maori language? How would you explain those if God did not approve of people praying in tongues during church services without interpretation? Of course, Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14, that those who spoke in tongues during the church service were giving thanks well. He wouldn't have said that if he thought that God didn't generally approve of people praying and worshiping God in tongues during church services. He was saying that for others to be edified, it is better to prophesy, and pray quietly to themselves with tongues rather than speak it right out loud. When I was a member of Pentecostal churches in the first 12 years of my Christian life, I knew that there was a major difference between a person praying in tongues, and speaking right out to everyone in tongues. And when a person spoke right out in tongues, there was always an interpretation. Most Pentecostals I know and have associated with for the next 40 years know the difference, and I have never observed a whole group all speaking out together in tongues, causing the chaos that some have described. But then, most NZ Pentecostals don't subscribe to the Faith movement of the US where most of the Youtube videos of people manifesting wacky, out-of-control stuff in those services. I have never seen that in any NZ Pentecostal or Charismatic church or conference that I have attended - and that is over 53 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted April 28, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.31 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted April 28, 2020 36 minutes ago, Paul James said: So, you do support a person in his private prayer room, praying in tongues to God. How about my close friend in a prayer meeting being told by a Ghanaian brother that he was praying in the brother's own rural village dialect, and speaking about the wonderful works of God? And when I was praying in tongues during a church service one Sunday night, Mrs Samuels, a NZ Maori friend told me that I was praising God in the Maori language? How would you explain those if God did not approve of people praying in tongues during church services without interpretation? Of course, Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14, that those who spoke in tongues during the church service were giving thanks well. He wouldn't have said that if he thought that God didn't generally approve of people praying and worshiping God in tongues during church services. He was saying that for others to be edified, it is better to prophesy, and pray quietly to themselves with tongues rather than speak it right out loud. When I was a member of Pentecostal churches in the first 12 years of my Christian life, I knew that there was a major difference between a person praying in tongues, and speaking right out to everyone in tongues. And when a person spoke right out in tongues, there was always an interpretation. Most Pentecostals I know and have associated with for the next 40 years know the difference, and I have never observed a whole group all speaking out together in tongues, causing the chaos that some have described. But then, most NZ Pentecostals don't subscribe to the Faith movement of the US where most of the Youtube videos of people manifesting wacky, out-of-control stuff in those services. I have never seen that in any NZ Pentecostal or Charismatic church or conference that I have attended - and that is over 53 years! I have no problem with a person in their private prayer room praying in tongues to God. But if there's something you want to talk over with the Lord, how does it benefit you to speak in tongues? Paul told us to pray constantly (1 Thess 5:17). This is how we get guidance from the Lord in our everyday decision making. How does speaking in tongues facilitate that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Posted April 28, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted April 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said: I have no problem with a person in their private prayer room praying in tongues to God. But if there's something you want to talk over with the Lord, how does it benefit you to speak in tongues? Paul told us to pray constantly (1 Thess 5:17). This is how we get guidance from the Lord in our everyday decision making. How does speaking in tongues facilitate that? Praying in tongues is not for getting guidance from God. I talk things over with the Lord all the time, because I share my life with Him, so that there is nothing He doesn't know about me, my desires, aspirations, and my opinions about things. But there are times when I don't know how to put my heart's desire into English, so I pray in tongues, because I know that as the Holy Spirit is inspiring the words, God understands them. The Scripture says, "Who knows the mind of the Spirit, unless the Spirit Himself?" Because the Holy Spirit is a Person and not just some type of liquid or indeterminate mist, He can inspire prayer through me, bypassing my finite mind. This is especially valuable with intercession where I know to pray for someone but not know the reason, and so the Holy Spirit inspires my tongues language accordingly. It is interesting when I am interceding for someone in tongues, the language changes, without me consciously changing it, and I am praying in a totally different language during the intercession, and when the intercession is over, my language changes back to my normal fellowship language. At times, when the language changes, while I am praying it, my mind is saying, "That's an interesting language!" In the time when I have spoken out in tongues for interpretation in church, it is, again, a different language. Of course, Paul lists "various types of tongues" in 1 Corinthians 12. At one time I was asked to pray for a guy's mother who was in a London hospital, and was having uncontrolled stomach bleeding and was in a life-threatening situation. I started interceding for her, and the language changed to the fastest oriental type language I have ever prayed. After the intercession was over, I was totally drained. I found out the next day that at the time of the intercession, the bleeding stopped and she was out of danger. The wonder of this was that I was praying in NZ at around 11am, and it was 11pm the previous evening in the London. I could never had accomplished at urgent and effective intercession just by praying with my mind in English. It took the power of the Holy Spirit though my tongues intercession that saved her life. For someone who has never prayed in tongues, has never experienced that level of intercession, and never will, unless they accept that the ability to pray in tongues is God's will for Christian believers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted April 28, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.31 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted April 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Paul James said: Praying in tongues is not for getting guidance from God. I talk things over with the Lord all the time, because I share my life with Him, so that there is nothing He doesn't know about me, my desires, aspirations, and my opinions about things. But there are times when I don't know how to put my heart's desire into English, so I pray in tongues, because I know that as the Holy Spirit is inspiring the words, God understands them. The Scripture says, "Who knows the mind of the Spirit, unless the Spirit Himself?" Because the Holy Spirit is a Person and not just some type of liquid or indeterminate mist, He can inspire prayer through me, bypassing my finite mind. This is especially valuable with intercession where I know to pray for someone but not know the reason, and so the Holy Spirit inspires my tongues language accordingly. It is interesting when I am interceding for someone in tongues, the language changes, without me consciously changing it, and I am praying in a totally different language during the intercession, and when the intercession is over, my language changes back to my normal fellowship language. At times, when the language changes, while I am praying it, my mind is saying, "That's an interesting language!" In the time when I have spoken out in tongues for interpretation in church, it is, again, a different language. Of course, Paul lists "various types of tongues" in 1 Corinthians 12. At one time I was asked to pray for a guy's mother who was in a London hospital, and was having uncontrolled stomach bleeding and was in a life-threatening situation. I started interceding for her, and the language changed to the fastest oriental type language I have ever prayed. After the intercession was over, I was totally drained. I found out the next day that at the time of the intercession, the bleeding stopped and she was out of danger. The wonder of this was that I was praying in NZ at around 11am, and it was 11pm the previous evening in the London. I could never had accomplished at urgent and effective intercession just by praying with my mind in English. It took the power of the Holy Spirit though my tongues intercession that saved her life. For someone who has never prayed in tongues, has never experienced that level of intercession, and never will, unless they accept that the ability to pray in tongues is God's will for Christian believers. I don't know why you pray, but I pray because I believe it's part of loving the Lord with all my heart, mind and soul, the first and great commandment. I also like to express my concerns to him and get his guidance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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