enoob57 Posted October 4, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,189 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted October 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, 1sheep said: Sarcasm is not a godly attribute. Ill fix my errors in my sentence structure. Will you fix your prideful countenance? 1 minute ago, 1sheep said: It was easiest for you to respond with a catty smart elek remark rather than addressing what I said. One of the worst things we can do is to assess emotional discharge from written comments... your comments to me was your confusing... then you concluded I was confusing hyper calvinism with Calvinism. I made a direct statement in total of this... I mean what did you expect me to say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 24 minutes ago, Carrie G said: I think your missing the point of the chapter. Although, I can see where you would take it as service now. The point of the chapter is Paul's defense of God's sovereignty. It has nothing to do with God choosing who will be saved. That's where the Calvinists have it wrong. God does NOT choose who will be saved. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1Ti 2:3-4) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1sheep Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 minute ago, enoob57 said: One of the worst things we can do is to assess emotional discharge from written comments... your comments to me was your confusing... then you concluded I was confusing hyper calvinism with Calvinism. I made a direct statement in total of this... I mean what did you expect me to say I guess I expect you to respond to the subject I pointed out. You dont know the difference which is why you avoided it! Instead you respond in kind to the caricature of yourself; ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted October 4, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,189 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,469 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted October 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, 1sheep said: I guess I expect you to respond to the subject I pointed out. You dont know the difference which is why you avoided it! Instead you respond in kind to the caricature of yourself; ridiculous. It really had no basis in the accusation to respond to... Calvinism teaches limited atonement of which I was addressing to another poster... where you got what you got lies with you not with me or my post as far as I can tell.... God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted October 4, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 395 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 319 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Carrie G said: ...I had a hard time believing in my heart of hearts that God forgave me... Yes, I can relate. God knows our heart better than we do. Forgiveness is forgiving our self for needing to forgive. In other words, if we knew the Truth of the matter, we have no reason to forgive. So, God has forgiven us before we could forgive our self. The problem is that we tend to think, instead of knowing. Faith is knowing instead of thinking. All our knowing comes from the heart, the Spirit of Truth. Repentance is from the heart, and it recognizes the Truth, and wishes to return to the Truth. Repentance is ego (self-will) deflation at depth. The correct use of free-will is to humble the ego, to become humble to Truth, to God, to God's will. The more we do this, the more heart felt love for God, and God's love for us, is experienced. Love in our heart becomes a cup, bubbling over, with living water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 The reason we know that the 5 points of Calvinism are false, particularly Limited Atonement is that there is no typology for that in the OT. The OT contains types and shadows for everything related to salvation, but there are types or shadows for Limited Atonement in the OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie G Posted October 4, 2018 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 36 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/16/1974 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 37 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: The point of the chapter is Paul's defense of God's sovereignty. It has nothing to do with God choosing who will be saved. That's where the Calvinists have it wrong. God does NOT choose who will be saved. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1Ti 2:3-4) There are several plain points in that chapter where he is talking about who is saved. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel. Romans 9:6 When he talks about Esau and Jacob he says : in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls Romans 9:11 And speaking of Israel he says only a remnant of them will be saved. Romans 9:27 I realize you have strong convictions about Calvanism, but I hope to share why it makes sense to me if it can be of any help to you. I also am new to my Calvanist perspective and am open to possible correction. I have a John MacArthur study Bible and all the notes on Romans 9 speak about salvation and it makes good sense to me how he puts it. In fact my understanding of limited atonement comes from John MacArthur. I grew up with an Armenian understanding of the Bible. So I am just grasping Calvanism. I am sorry if it appeared like I was shaming you with my large print. I truly am just not good with computers and couldn't figure out how I even got the text to come out so large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 4, 2018 Share Posted October 4, 2018 Just now, Carrie G said: There are several plain points in that chapter where he is talking about who is saved. Nothing in the chapter says anything about God choosing who is or is not saved. Quote For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel. Romans 9:6 That's right. He makes a distinction between Jews who are simply national Israelites, vs. those who are the true Israel, namely saved Jews. Quote When he talks about Esau and Jacob he says : in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls Romans 9:11 But that is not about salvation. God did choose Jacob for salvation, but for service if you read it all: (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. (Rom 9:11-13) Quote And speaking of Israel he says only a remnant of them will be saved. Romans 9:27 But it doesn't say that is due to God's choice. Quote I realize you have strong convictions about Calvanism, but I hope to share why it makes sense to me if it can be of any help to you. I also am new to my Calvanist perspective and am open to possible correction. I have a John MacArthur study Bible and all the notes on Romans 9 speak about salvation and it makes good sense to me how he puts it. In fact my understanding of limited atonement comes from John MacArthur. I grew up with an Armenian understanding of the Bible. So I am just grasping Calvanism. I am sorry if it appeared like I was shaming you with my large print. I truly am just not good with computers and couldn't figure out how I even got the text to come out so large. I like McArthur myself. I have some of his books, but the Bible simply doesn't teach that Jesus died for only a select group. And there is nothing in the OT to back that up. Everything in the OT that serve as types and shadows of salvation, do not support Limited Atonement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie G Posted October 4, 2018 Group: Members Followers: 2 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 36 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/16/1974 Author Share Posted October 4, 2018 28 minutes ago, Raven said: Yes, I can relate. God knows our heart better than we do. Forgiveness is forgiving our self for needing to forgive. In other words, if we knew the Truth of the matter, we have no reason to forgive. So, God has forgiven us before we could forgive our self. The problem is that we tend to think, instead of knowing. Faith is knowing instead of thinking. All our knowing comes from the heart, the Spirit of Truth. Repentance is from the heart, and it recognizes the Truth, and wishes to return to the Truth. Repentance is ego (self-will) deflation at depth. The correct use of free-will is to humble the ego, to become humble to Truth, to God, to God's will. The more we do this, the more heart felt love for God, and God's love for us, is experienced. Love in our heart becomes a cup, bubbling over, with living water. I didn't quite follow what you said about forgiveness, but I thought what you said about repentance was beautiful. Thank you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted October 4, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 395 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 319 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Carrie G said: I didn't quite follow what you said about forgiveness, but I thought what you said about repentance was beautiful. Thank you. Thanks Carrie G. I will assume it is this first sentence... 37 minutes ago, Carrie G said: Forgiveness is forgiving our self for needing to forgive. When we forgive someone, we actually relate to the other person. We understand how we ourselves make errors. When we cannot forgive, we still cannot relate to the other person. This indifference is our own. This can become difficult if we don't look at ourself deeply, like Truth does. For instance, as a child I was repeatedly physically abused by my alcoholic father. For years I could not forgive him. To forgive him I had to look deeply at myself to realize that I too have experienced losing the plot, acting out withoutout empathy, self-will run riot, etc. I then could relate, and was able to forgive him. In doing so, I realized my inforgiveness was from my denial of my own truth _ making judgments unfairly. Similar to ... John 8:7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." Lots of people get caught up in a story about unfairness. While in that story, they cannot relate to the other person. In effect, they have denied their own truth of imperfection. Repentance is our way of looking deeply at our own truth. Edited October 4, 2018 by Raven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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