Guest TIMGUY Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Does God sacrifice one person to save others? I am refering to the hardening of Pharoahs heart when Moses asked for the Isralites to be set free from egypt. And also to the new testament passage that says 'God made some for good works and some for bad'. Also this is tied in with predestination, or at least my view of predestination. My conclusion is that God lets everyone have a choice to be saved, free will. And that if you reject that choice, then God can use you to save others by hardening your heart and condeming you. In Pharoahs case the Isralites were saved from egypt at his expense. Does everyone agree with this? -note I will post another topic regarding predestination- Thanks From Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
book_wirm Posted June 12, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 219 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/28/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2005 I am refering to the hardening of Pharoahs heart when Moses asked for the Isralites to be set free from egypt. My conclusion is that God lets everyone have a choice to be saved, free will. And that if you reject that choice, then God can use you to save others by hardening your heart and condeming you. In Pharoahs case the Isralites were saved from egypt at his expense. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'll avoid the general topic of predestination. I'm already involved in a rather lengthy thread on that. Come join us if you like -"Calvin vs. Arminius. But the specific case of Pharoah is interesting. I was wondering why you think he was given a free will choice prior to his heart being hardened. God informed Moses at the burning bush that He would harden Pharoah's heart so that he would not let the people go. It was intended from the beginning that this should be so. It was the means by which God chose to "show all His wonders" in the land of Egypt. In Christ, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted June 13, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted June 13, 2005 It does sort of seem like Pharaoh gets the short end of the stick here...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zayit Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Remember that G-d has written the end from the beginning and if so then that means he already knew the final choice of Pharaoh, he took nothing away from him, but what if he did, the L-RD giveth, the L-RD taketh away, blessed be the name of the L-RD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyguy Posted June 14, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 89 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/06/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/09/1974 Share Posted June 14, 2005 Remember that G-d has written the end from the beginning and if so then that means he already knew the final choice of Pharaoh, he took nothing away from him, but what if he did, the L-RD giveth, the L-RD taketh away, blessed be the name of the L-RD! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Pharaoh hardened his own heart before God closed it for good. "But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said" (exodus 8:15). "But this time also Pharaoh hardened his heart and would not let the people go" (exodus 8:32). "But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses" (exodus 9:12). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted June 14, 2005 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,799 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 14, 2005 Ah good point Shy, I hadnt realized that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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