Dad Ernie Posted June 30, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,802 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/29/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/01/1945 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Greetings Remnantrob, I don't believe any wicked survive because the verses you quoted were after the second resurrection. If you look back in verses 4 & 5 it says: God's wrath is poured out here: Revelation 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Revelation 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. Revelation 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. HOWEVER THERE REMAINS THOSE WHO ARE NOT DESTROYED: Revelation 18:9-10 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. This occurs immediately following the resurrection/rapture of the Saints. 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Then shall Christ reign on this earth with all His saints OVER THOSE THAT WERE NOT DESTROYED WITH BABYLON. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. If the God's people leave to go to heaven with him, I don't think that the wicked from all the nations will still be roaming around the earth for a thousand years.(since verse 3 says Satan won't have anyone to tempt.) There are two groups of people that have died, the saved and the unsaved. The saved are resurrected at the Lord's 2nd advent and will rule with Him for 1,000 years on this earth. Then THOSE UNSAVED WILL BE RESURRECTED AT THE END OF THE 1,000 YEARS to be judged. Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. As you can see, you are misunderstanding what vs. 3 means. Satan is shut up in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years and WILL NOT GO OUT AND DECEIVE THE NATIONS DURING THAT TIME. IT DOES NOT SAY THAT SATAN HAS NO ONE TO TEMPT, but when he is once again loosed at the END of the 1,000 years, HE WILL AGAIN LEAD THE NATIONS TO COME AGAINST THE CAMP OF THE SAINTS. Blessings, Dad Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted June 30, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2005 The following is an essay I wrote. It relies heavily upon the Bible kNowledge Commentary for information There are many beliefs concerning Babylon but almost all of them center on Babylon being either a religious/social item or a political/city/nation item. I happen to believe that neither is mutually exclusive and that the Babylon referred to in verse 17-18 is actually referring to the religion of Babylon and political system of Babylon. In chapter sixteen one of the angels had invited John (in spirit) to witness the destruction of the woman who sits on many waters. The waters in this instance represent peoples, multitudes, and nations (v. 15) and the woman represents the religious system of Babylon. The reason I believe this is that all false religions are based off the original Babylonian religion. This religion was symbolic of woman because it was founded by Nimrod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnantrob Posted July 1, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/23/1982 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Interesting post guys. But I still have reason to believe that there will be no one here on the earth after Christ 2nd coming. Here are the scriptures that lead me to this conclusion: Isaiah 11:4But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 2 Thess 1:7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power Psalms 68:2As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God. From those text alone I gather that the wicked can not stand in the presence of righteousness and thus they fall dead at Christ first coming. 1 Thess. 4:14-17 say: 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. From that text I understand that those of us who have died in Christ as well as those of us who are alive at his second coming will be caught up to be with our Lord in the air. That doesn't seem like earth to me but hey we all can get something different from a passage of scripture at times Even when we read the book of Luke we find that History seems to repeat it self. In Noah's days people didn't go on living during the flood(unless they were on the ark). They perished because they didn't listen to the word of God. Luke 17:26-30 states: 26And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. I take from these passages that just like in Noah's day everything is going to seem peaceful and normal and then BAM!!! (scared myself)....lol. Jesus is going to come to take his people back with him into heaven to judge the wicked and angels alike according to Rev. 20:4 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Anyway, that's my take...interesting points of scripture everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim7 Posted July 1, 2005 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 635 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2005 Absolutely true. When Jesus comes back, it's over. And the rest of dead live not until after the 1000 years and then are resurected for their execution in the lake of fire. God bless and keep, Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolineS Posted July 1, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 414 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2005 I agree. When Christ returns the wicked will be slain. "And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth." Jeremiah 25:33. Sounds pretty thorough to me. At the close of the 1,000 years the wicked will be raised. Satan, loosed from his bonds, will then have an earth full of people (nations) to deceive. In Christ, CarolineS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted July 1, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2005 Keep in mind that Christ establishing His kingdom on earth actually is vitally important. God created this earth "good", that is, perfect. It ws meant to be a place where man and God lived together (evidenced by God walking in the garden). Through the fall the world became tainted with evil. Christ comming back is going to rid the world of the consequence of the fall. In fact, Paul in Romans says that the entire earth waits for redemption. Now if the earth ceases to be, how can it ever be redeemed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolineS Posted July 1, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 414 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2005 From that text I understand that those of us who have died in Christ as well as those of us who are alive at his second coming will be caught up to be with our Lord in the air. That doesn't seem like earth to me but hey we all can get something different from a passage of scripture at times blush.gif Exactly Remnantrob The whole thing needs to be taken into consideration like virse 16. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Christ himself descends to earth from heaven. So those who go up to meet him in the air go up to meet him in the air on earth. I am not sure what you mean by this. Here is verse 17. "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." 1 Thess. 4:17. We meet the Lord in the air, His feet do not touch the earth at this time. Where in this chapter does it say we meet the Lord on earth? In Christ, CarolineS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnantrob Posted July 1, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/23/1982 Share Posted July 1, 2005 I have no problem with the text: 5:10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth." I just don't believe that God is going to establish his kingdom at his first return. The scripture in 1 Thess. 4:16 says: 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: It just states that our Lord Christ himself is coming from heaven to earth. It doesn't mention him coming bringing his throne to earth at that time. Just my take on it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnantrob Posted July 1, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/23/1982 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Hey Dad Ernie, You stated: Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. As you can see, you are misunderstanding what vs. 3 means. Satan is shut up in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years and WILL NOT GO OUT AND DECEIVE THE NATIONS DURING THAT TIME. IT DOES NOT SAY THAT SATAN HAS NO ONE TO TEMPT, but when he is once again loosed at the END of the 1,000 years, HE WILL AGAIN LEAD THE NATIONS TO COME AGAINST THE CAMP OF THE SAINTS. from what i read in verse 3 of Revelation chapter 20 after Satan is cast into the bottomless pit, "He should deceive the nations no more" seems quite similar to he has no one to tempt because he's bound. sorry if i'm misinterpreting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolineS Posted July 1, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 414 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 1, 2005 Keep in mind that Christ establishing His kingdom on earth actually is vitally important. God created this earth "good", that is, perfect. It ws meant to be a place where man and God lived together (evidenced by God walking in the garden). Through the fall the world became tainted with evil. Christ comming back is going to rid the world of the consequence of the fall. In fact, Paul in Romans says that the entire earth waits for redemption. Now if the earth ceases to be, how can it ever be redeemed? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat...Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells." 2 Peter:12-13. The earth will never cease to be. We will reign with Christ for 1,000 years in heaven. During that time, Satan will roam the earth, alone, contemplating his evil plan to rule the earth. The unsaved will lie over the earth, dead, so he will have no one to tempt. At the end of 1,000 yrs. Christ will return, with all the saints,place His feet on the Mt. of Olives; the Holy City (our home) will descend from heaven. The unsaved will be resurrected. Satan and all his followers from all over the earth will attack the Holy City. Jesus will destroy them all, judge them, and sentence each one to hell according to their evil deeds. The earth will be cleansed with fire and remade back to a perfect state. Then we will live and reign with Christ for all of eternity here on a new earth. The earth is given a 1,000 yr. rest while we are in heaven with Jesus. It's like the earth is given a Sabbath rest. That's the way I see it. In Christ, CarolineS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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