7cworldwide Posted July 5, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1978 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Yawn... I suggest you start digging thru my posts for your answer to this. No.... Am I a one issue voter? No. But I do know where the priorities need to lie... and #1 is not my wallet or what government can do for me. Abortion is hands down the most important issue. 45,000,000+ dead. Do the math... and I think something is being done about it. See this: http://www.family.org/cforum/feature/a0036950.cfm Iraq.... stem-cell research... is that it? Those are weak points. I think we've executed the mission in Iraq with the utmost dignity and respect for innocent life... unlike our evil enemies... and I think it's only right to be against embryonic stem-cell research. corrupt... and the Dems aren't? power hungry... and the Dems aren't? They're just not getting anything to satisfy their hunger because they can't win elections anymore. favors the rich... the Dems are against all tax cuts. They want to the U.S. to become a Socialist Republic so they can maintain their enslaving stranglehold on the welfare state. They are against privatizing Social Security because they want the gov't to keep more of the people's money. moral hypocrites... yeah, I guess you got us there. The Dems are pretty much out in the open about their dedication to evil: http://democrats.org/a/2005/06/statement_of_dn_1.php It's futile to try to prove to me that the Democrats are the lesser of the two evils. I'm not buying it. I'm also not buying that you use to be a Republican. Did you vote for Bush? In '04? In 2000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7cworldwide Posted July 5, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1978 Share Posted July 5, 2005 War for oil - you could have looked the information on this up for yourself. Read it and weep for all our dead soldiers. And don't forget, President Bush lied about WMDs..... See the thread on Downing St. Memo. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?p...4¬Found=true http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?p...4¬Found=true http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/warforoil.html http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0216-20.htm http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0208-05.htm http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exe...ew.cgi/37/10299 These are just a tip of the iceberg; also, don't forget that Dick Cheney's old company Haliburton also gained a lot from this war. Why do you think the war in Iraq was fought? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hogwash. The Downing St. memos? Come on... I think it was fought to free the people from tyranny under Saddam. It was fought because the U.N. had no resolve in their "resolutions".... and IF you must find a hidden agenda in all of it, I think Israel's security had a lot to do with the urgency to oust Saddam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest charlie Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 (edited) Abortion is hands down the most important issue. 45,000,000+ dead. Do the math... and I think something is being done about it. See this: http://www.family.org/cforum/feature/a0036950.cfm Iraq.... stem-cell research... is that it? Those are weak points. I think we've executed the mission in Iraq with the utmost dignity and respect for innocent life... unlike our evil enemies... and I think it's only right to be against embryonic stem-cell research. In other words you hold a double standard; aborted babies are important but dead soldiers....and innocent Iraqis are not. We have no business being in Iraq in the first place. We went in under false pretenses; the policy was fixed. What about that do you not understand? I agree that abortion is unethical, wrong, a sin BUT once again (how many times do I have to say it) I think it's a smokescreen. I don't think the republicans have really had the will to do anything about it of lasting significance. The pressure is on now and they won't be able to blame the bad old liberals if they don't get Roe vs Wade reversed. We'll see what happens. Do you think they'll get it overturned via the Supreme Court? Are you against in vitro fertilization? If not then you too are a hypocrit because that's WHY we have fertilized eggs in the first place; the eggs that aren't used by a couple are destroyed with or without stem-cell research. As long as Christians condone in vitro then imo they should either support embryonic stem-cell research or just shut up about it. I don't peruse James Dobson's websites or listen to his radio show anymore so I'm going to ask you what does he and his organisation www.family.org have to say on the subject of in vitro these days? Do they address it at all? corrupt... and the Dems aren't? power hungry... and the Dems aren't? They're just not getting anything to satisfy their hunger because they can't win elections anymore. They lost political control in 96 because of corruption but evidently the republicans didn't learn anything from that; evidently they think they can get away with corruption without paying the same price that the democrats paid. the Dems are against all tax cuts. They want to the U.S. to become a Socialist Republic so they can maintain their enslaving stranglehold on the welfare state. They are against privatizing Social Security because they want the gov't to keep more of the people's money. What good are tax cuts to the rich when the republicans are spending more money that the democrats ever dreamed of. Eventually the middle class will have to pay up like they always do. I'm sure Bush is gonna hold off and leave that nasty chore to whoever follows him. I'm totally against privatizing Social Security. I don't think it's about about the govt keeping more of the people's money; I think that's just the propoganda/ the marketing plan being used to get people to go along with it. I've heard several people say they think this push for privatization as nothing more than a grab to divert the social security money to wall street brokers. I think the elderly folks are right about this. How many people do you know personally that lost their shirts/retirement money in the stock market a few years ago. I know two families who did and one of them went to a professional brokerage firm to get the money invested so it wouldn't be lost. The one lady told me she would have rather blown all that money at the mall or wal-mart as to have paid someone else to lose it all. They want to the U.S. to become a Socialist Republic so they can maintain their enslaving stranglehold on the welfare state. Maybe they do and maybe they don't; I could make the charge that the republicans want to make this country a religious theocracy and come up with a pretty good case for that opinion. Why do you think the democrats want that? Edited July 5, 2005 by charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest charlie Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 (edited) I just noticed a couple of things that I didn't see before. It's futile to try to prove to me that the Democrats are the lesser of the two evils. I'm not buying it. I'm also not buying that you use to be a Republican. Did you vote for Bush? In '04? In 2000? I voted for Bush's father twice and GWB once in 2000. I voted for the constitution party candidate in 96 and 04. I voted for a democrat for senator in the early 80s and I think once for govenor also in the 80s; other than that I've always voted for republicans for every office. Sorry to break it to you but yes I was a republican until April of this year; if you have a problem believeing that then I might suggest that you are WAY too enamored of the republican party. Hogwash. The Downing St. memos? Come on... I think it was fought to free the people from tyranny under Saddam. It was fought because the U.N. had no resolve in their "resolutions".... and IF you must find a hidden agenda in all of it, I think Israel's security had a lot to do with the urgency to oust Saddam. Unbelieveable! It's a sad day imo when Christians choose to accept a lie over the truth. The Downing St. memo is not a lie; it's proof positive that GWB lied to us and the congress and got over 1700 American soldiers killed and somewhere around 15,000 wounded, 1,500 of them seriously. We're talking about blindness, missing limbs and colostomy bags. Then you totally ignore that we were TOLD that we were invading because of WMDs, and you say "to free the people from tyranny under Saddam".......Come again?????? First you ignore WMDs then you either ignore or just don't know that Saddam WAS OUR BOY......FOR YEARS! How many brutal dictators has our government supported over the years; how many dictators have we aided and abedded in oppressing their own people. Do you even have a clue? As for Israel, the last time I checked GWB isn't President of Israel he's president of the United States.... THIS COUNTRY, OUR COUNTRY. It's not our place to fight Israel's battles for them. If they had a problem with Saddam/Iraq they should have went to war with him....not us. We had enough on our own plate with 9/11 and Al Quaida in Afghanistan. And you think you're in a position to be spreading the word on politics to a Christian flock??? My gosh, we are really in some serious spiritual trouble in this country and I don't think the major danger is coming from the secular element anymore. You know, you totally overlooked or ignored several other things I mentioned in my previous posts, that CIA leak, the Jeff Gannon scandal. Why? Who's your God? Now I feel myself getting steamed and I usually don't get too worked up at WBs anymore. Edited July 5, 2005 by charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7cworldwide Posted July 5, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1978 Share Posted July 5, 2005 (edited) In other words you hold a double standard; aborted babies are important but dead soldiers....and innocent Iraqis are not. No. Those lives are just as important. Our soldiers are fighting for a free a prosperous Iraq. None of those deaths will be in vain as long as we finish what we started... and we do not target innocent civilians. That's what our evil enemies do... I agree that abortion is unethical' date=' wrong, a sin BUT once again (how many times do I have to say it) I think it's a smokescreen. I don't think the republicans have really had the will to do anything about it of lasting significance. The pressure is on now and they won't be able to blame the bad old liberals if they don't get Roe vs Wade reversed. We'll see what happens. Do you think they'll get it overturned via the Supreme Court?[/quote'] If the liberals allow Bush to place a good judge in the vacant seat, yes. Are you against in vitro fertilization? Yes, actually I am. I don't peruse James Dobson's websites or listen to his radio show anymore so I'm going to ask you what does he and his organisation www.family.org have to say on the subject of in vitro these days? Do they address it at all? Not that it effects my views one way or the other but I can't find any direct opposition to IVF on their site. I did find this page that addresses the "legal and moral questions" about IVF: http://www.family.org/cforum/fosi/bioethic...ts/a0035066.cfm What good are tax cuts to the rich when the republicans are spending more money that the democrats ever dreamed of. Call it what you will... my family is lower-middle class and I'm getting to keep more of my money under Bush. I'm totally against privatizing Social Security. You should look into it further. How can being able to keep and control your own money be a bad thing? ...and it can go to your children after you die. I could make the charge that the republicans want to make this country a religious theocracy and come up with a pretty good case for that opinion. Theonomy, yes. Theocracy, no... I voted for the constitution party candidate in 96 and 04. Well, at least you threw your vote away instead of giving it to Kerry. Thanks! Unbelieveable! It's a sad day imo when Christians choose to accept a lie over the truth. I don't think either side of the political spectrum has the full truth. Anyone who thinks that has been duped. The Downing St. memo is not a lie Proof? ...talk about accepting a lie. Then you totally ignore that we were TOLD that we were invading because of WMDs Saddam had them. He used them on his people. How do you know they weren't moved to Syria before the war broke out? You don't. We may never know the truth about the WMDs. Saddam had chance after chance after chance to give in to the demands of the U.N. and the U.S. He knew what was going to happen to Iraq if he didn't comply.... you either ignore or just don't know that Saddam WAS OUR BOY......FOR YEARS! I don't ignore that. We had a common enemy in Iran. It's that simple. How many brutal dictators has our government supported over the years; how many dictators have we aided and abedded in oppressing their own people. Do you even have a clue? Ok... I give. You tell me. And you think you're in a position to be spreading the word on politics to a Christian flock??? My gosh' date=' we are really in some serious spiritual trouble in this country and I don't think the major danger is coming from the secular element anymore.[/quote'] You think you're in a position to say I'm not? God called me to preach... not me and not any man. You know' date=' you totally overlooked or ignored several other things I mentioned in my previous posts, that CIA leak, the Jeff Gannon scandal. Is GWB your God?[/quote'] Antagonizing, aren't you? And exactly what was I supposed to say about those two things? If you have a specific question that you can ask in a respectful manner, I'll be happy to answer you. Otherwise, we can end this tit-for-tat. Edited July 5, 2005 by 7cworldwide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest charlie Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 (edited) I couldn't get the quote function to work which made this post a bit hard to follow...so....I've put any quotes into . ............ No. Those lives are just as important. Our soldiers are fighting for a free a prosperous Iraq. None of those deaths will be in vain as long as we finish what we started... and we do not target innocent civilians. That's what our evil enemies do... I disagree! I still believe they are fighting a corporate war in Iraq. If the liberals allow Bush to place a good judge in the vacant seat, yes. You're not gonna be able to lay all opposition at the door of the liberal by any stretch of the imagination. You even have a link on your own site to a WBs newsarticle on this subject. Read it; it makes a lot of good points. http://www.worthynews.com/zone.cgi?http://...sosplitgop&prin Yes, actually I am. Congradulations for being consistent. Might I suggest that your opposition, your speaking out not be against stem-cell research but that you go straight to the heart of the matter and start shouting out against in vitro. Contact your representatives and tell them to put the focus there as well; that'd take care of the embryonic stem-cell issue. - I am in favor of both in vitro and embryonic stem-cell research myself; I think both are an effort for the good of mankind and individuals. Call it what you will... my family is lower-middle class and I'm getting to keep more of my money under Bush. For now; with the incredible debt that's piling up there's no way to avoid a tax increase in the future. Of course we can always count on the super-rich not paying the same percentage; gotta protect the status quo. Don't forget one of the largest tax increases in history was under Ronald Reagan; George Bush senior raising taxes played a part in getting him beat. GWB may not raise taxes during his term but you can bet who-ever follows him will have no choice whether they're a republican or a democrat. You should look into it further. How can being able to keep and control your own money be a bad thing? ...and it can go to your children after you die. I'm all for that; that's not what social security is. They're forceably taking it from your check and as far as I know even with the privatization of social security they're still gonna be forceable taking it out of your check. If I really got to keep it and control it they'd never get it in the first place. Like I said, this "idea" of keeping it and controlling it is just a marketing slogan to try and get us to go along with it; I think it's a scam to reroute the money to Wall st. I don't think either side of the political spectrum has the full truth. Anyone who thinks that has been duped. Neither do I. quote> charlie>>The Downing St. memo is not a lie<< Proof? ...talk about accepting a lie. But, it sounds like you've been duped pretty good. What else do you require here? Saddam had them. He used them on his people. How do you know they weren't moved to Syria before the war broke out? You don't. We may never know the truth about the WMDs. Saddam had chance after chance after chance to give in to the demands of the U.N. and the U.S. He knew what was going to happen to Iraq if he didn't comply.... He had chemical weapons which Donald Rumsfeld's old pharmasudical company sold him; the U.S. govt looked the other way when he used them. Those were gone a long time ago. If he had anything else, which is doubtful, why would he have moved them to Syria; what's the point of having them if you're not going to use them when you're being invaded? If he'd had them logic tells me he would have used them on us and tried to save his power. Actually Saddam was complying with the inspectors; he let them in. They'd inspected about 100 sites and had around 600 left to go, as I recall, but before they could finish Bush and Blaire told them to get out because they were gonna start bombing. Prior to that Scott Ritter, a weapons inspector, had already told Bush and the public that they had no WMDs and he was ridiculed, people didn't want to hear it. I don't ignore that. We had a common enemy in Iran. It's that simple. quote=charlie]How many brutal dictators has our government supported over the years; how many dictators have we aided and abedded in oppressing their own people. Do you even have a clue? Ok... I give. You tell me. Okay let's start with Iran since you brought them up. Iran was our enemy because we supported the Shaw of Iran who was one of the most brutal dictators that region had ever seen. Then of course there's Saddam Hussein, and theres's the Saudi Royal Family (who btw is now sending their militant Islamists terrorists into Iraq (via the clerics) to attack the Americans and get them out of their own country). That's just for starters, that's not even counting our own hemisphere. You think you're in a position to say I'm not? God called me to preach... not me and not any man. I don't think you should be but I have no authority to tell you not to. God called me out of fundamentalism and neo-conservative republicanism. I resisted at first but am glad now that I finally listened to the Lord. Evidently He's sending you different messages than He's sent me. Antagonizing, aren't you? You are the one who started any slurring or antagonizing; how soon you've forgotten that. And exactly what was I supposed to say about those two things? If you have a specific question that you can ask in a respectful manner, I'll be happy to answer you. Otherwise, we can end this tit-for-tat. I did ask you about those things when I first brought them up a few posts back: >>>Yet, he appointed the first openly gay ambassador and the republicans planted a male prostitute in the WH as a reporter; it's this administration that leaked the name of a CIA operative...are those Christian things to do or even American things to do?<<<< I said I didn't think it was; what do you think? Edited July 5, 2005 by charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constant Posted July 5, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 128 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,946 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/06/1979 Share Posted July 5, 2005 GWB didn't put a gun to anyones's head and said "you join the military or else!" The military troops enlisted knowing that they have a chance of going to war and a chance of being hurt or killed. They had the choice. There wasn't a draft. When my husband and I enlisted into the Marine Corps, we knew the risks. We did it for Honor and Courage and Commitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest charlie Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 GWB didn't put a gun to anyones's head and said "you join the military or else!" The military troops enlisted knowing that they have a chance of going to war and a chance of being hurt or killed. They had the choice. There wasn't a draft. When my husband and I enlisted into the Marine Corps, we knew the risks. We did it for Honor and Courage and Commitment. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't lay the blame for this war at the feet of the soldiers Constant. I was in the military and I have family members in the military now. When I took the oath it was to protect our country against all enemies both foreign and domestic; I didn't take an oath nor was my intention when joining to serve as a private police force for private corporations. Honor, courage and commitment is wonderful but our leaders need to do the same and not misuse those in the miliary who have only the most honorable intentions. If this war is expanded into Iran and Syria I see a draft coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted July 5, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted July 5, 2005 Men, may I make a suggestion? I think it would serve us all well to take a small break for prayer and refreshing for a few. We can debate and discuss these things in a manner that is a little bit more peaceful, if we try. Trust me, sometimes a little break goes a long way toward simple Brotherhood in Christ. We are all Brothers and Sisters in Christ, that much is true. If we work from that platform, we can do wonders in relations toward our Brethren. May God give us the heart to carry on in a way that would bring a smile to His face. Peace, t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work in Progress Posted July 6, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,111 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 35 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 6, 2005 Now I feel myself getting steamed Well, don't! You both make great points, and it's great reading. The best part was, about two pages back, you each got a little nice to each other. It put a big smile on my face, feeling the tension melt away. I agree with Ted - take a deep breath and remember your bond of Christ. In the end, all of this will pass and that will be all that matters. Thank you both for such articulate posts and great reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts