The Truth about "THE LOGOS OF GOD."

[DearOldDad]

LOGIOS is translated "WORD" several places in scripture, but is translated "ORACLE(S)" OF GOD in much of its scriptural use, but mostly in the new testament.

If the developers of doctrine are to be concistent, they cannot reference the word in Gen 1:1 to be logos, first, because it is not designated, nor is "word" the translation, but it is assumed by the fact Gen 1:1 states "In beginning, God said..." and then they attempt to tell us what word applies to the verb "SAID," even though "Said" is not found in the scripture until verse three. THUS are all of MAN"S doctrines developed.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Later We are told specifically, that "LOGOS" was NOT the standard by which MEN were tried, until after the giving of the law to Moses.

So let us discover what SCRIPTURE use is developed for our understanding;

"Logos" is used exclusively to reference a communication, whether it be translated "word" or "matter" or whatever, it is always communication of some kind under consideration. Paul tells us It is NEVER a reference to a person, other than John's revelation written in 69 a.d. telling us about the "new name" to be given to Jesus at some point in a time designated "FUTURE."

Since John's gospel was not written until 96 a.d. it serves to demonstrate that the first Christians had no concept of a logos becoming a God/man, Jesus. And John doesn't say it was. That is a perfect example of scholars jumping into the development of the New Testament before it was completed, trying to influence the minds of new converts, to accept a doctrine that Jesus was pre-existant God in Spirit. Several verses are misapplied in support of this view, but it only works if there is no other explanation for those verses.

John 17:5 comes to mind, which Trinitarian doctrine claims shows a pre-existant Jesus with the Father. But if the Greek is properly examined, it will show that the language is mistranslated to show a prehistoric event, "before the world was," when the reality is, it is no such thing. "Was" is not in the verse...

For another example of the language look to Acts 10:17 and Acts 12:14
Acts 10:17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon's house, and stood "before the gate,"

Acts 12:14 And when she knew Peter's voice, she opened not the gate for gladness, but ran in, and told how Peter stood "before the gate."

When God speaks of coming events through prophecy, that prophecy is right there "before the world" in the same way Peter stood "Before the gate."

It is not telling us "Peter stood, and afterward the gate stood." It is speaking of the proximity where peter stood in front of the gate through which he must pass.

Some asked how "logos" is otherwise applied. Paul (That Paul who wrote the second New Testament book, Galations) tells us of a concept in the mind of God to which he gave the name "The Logos Of God," in which the concept of "Christ living in me" becomes reality in a personification in the saints who give their life over to Christ to direct.

Rom 8: 28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Look for example at how Paul describes and defines "The Logos Of God" for us, some sixty years prior to John's writing of his gospel.

In 48 a.d. Paul wrote:
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." [Gal 2:20]

And -

"But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ." [Gal 4:4-7]

Paul also said in that same letter - "My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you, [Gal 4:19]

So Paul introduces a concept to the saints, of "Christ living in you;" but does not make any further defining remarks to the saints in Galatia. Then, in In 55 a.d. Paul, writing to the saints in Corinth, said this -"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" [II Cor 13:5]

The reason I translate GREEK "en" to mean "Within" instead of Among, is because Christ lives WITHIN the saints who have conformed to his image.

Paul begins to introduce some finer points of definition when in 60 a.d. he said he had "fully preached the Logos Of God" to the whole world, and explained what it is - "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;"

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill The Logos Of God ; 26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you , the hope of glory]:" [Col 1:23,25-27]

We need to remember some words Paul brings together for us to consider: "Glory" and "hope" and "The Logos of God." We need to remember several things that are explained by Paul; 1) there was a mystery hidden from ages and generations, 2) it is now to be made manifest to the saints; and 3) there is glory somehow connected to this "soon to be manifested" mystery; and 4) Paul tells us this mystery has a name "The Logos Of God;" and 5) further, he tells us that this mystery, this manifested "logos of God" is "Christ in you" and yet further again, 6)it constitutes for us "the hope of glory." This is quite a mouthful.

So, let's see if this theme is picked up for verification anywhere else in scripture.

What we are looking for is some reference to "Christ in you" while you are "living" and "in your flesh," and further, we are looking for some indication that this is available for a very long time, that this is not just for the saints of Paul's day, to last only as long as he continues to preach it.

So we look, and look some more, till in 69 a.d., we find a reference to "The logos of God;" but it seems to be in a far different theme or context; it is found in one of the writings of John, in a book called "apokolypse of John" more popularly referenced as "The Revelation of John."

In this book, John speaks to us of a "new name" that Jesus is going to write upon his saints; "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." [Rev 3:12]

The use of the Greek word "kainon" (translated new) tells us this is not a name that has been around since creation and before; nor has it previously been applied to Jesus, or to anyone else as a name; though it has been defined by Paul, at this time,(69 a.d.) for over thirty-three years.

Then John tells us again "His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called "The logos of God."[Rev 19:12-13]

Paul expresses his exposition of a theme with - "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ." [Gal 4:4-7]

Finally, another Apostle picks up on the theme introduced and defined by Paul's writings. It is John's turn to talk about the saints in whom the spirit of Christ has been sent by God to dwell in the saints; (that "Logos Of God" which was introduced by Paul - "Christ living in me) - John speaks of it this way: "He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the logos was made flesh, and dwelt (within) us, and we beheld his (the one who received Christ) glory, the glory as of an only begotten of a Father, full of grace and truth." [John 1:11-14]

John does not say "as many as received him, them he made sons of God." No, John says "as many as received him, to them gave he power to become(no article in the Greek) sons of God." John is telling us there is something required beyond believing, to qualify one for being a son of God. And that requirement has been being spelled out by Paul the Apostle since Jesus ascended to the right hand of the Father, so many years ago.

Why does John fail to say "We beheld the glory of the only begotten son?" Instead, he says "We beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten son."

The GREEK w`s  is what is called a "particle of comparison." Why would John be comparing the glory of Jesus to the glory of Jesus? The truth is, he is not. He is comparing The glory of the saint in whom The Logos Of GOD is personified, with the glory of the only begotten son of God dwelling in that saint.

Jesus did not "become a man" in John 1:14. The only reason there is even a mention of Jesus at all in John's first chapter, is because in 96 a.d., John tied his gospel to the person of Christ and to "the logos of God" referenced in Rev 3:12 and in 19:12-13 with reference to the new name he is to be given, as "the logos of God."

Jesus was not "the logos of God" in 30 a.d; He was not "The logos of God" in 33 a.d. when he was ascended, and he was not "the Logos of God" when John prophesied about his gift-name, as of 69 a.d. it was still a future event.

In 96 a.d. John is speaking in 1:14 about an event in the life of a saint, a personification, and recalling his remarks he wrote in 69 a.d, about Jesus, here ties the two events together.

But the personification of the logos of God takes place, according to Paul, everytime some saint or other, so lives his life that he can say "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." [Gal 2:20]

When this saint aknowledges "Christ Jesus" in his life, the logos of God is personified in the life of that saint. And "we behold the glory as of the only begotten son of God" all over again, in that saint, through Christ living in him.

Paul spent a lifetime convincing the saints about this subject of "Jesus Christ living in me" and said, "My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you," [Gal 4:19]

So to recap what the Apostles have introduced and defined.
Paul introduced "Christ in you;" Paul defined "Christ in you" and said it is "the hope of Glory." He also defined it as "The Logos Of God."

Then John picked up on a new name which is to be given Jesus, and that new name is "The Logos of God;" Finally John brings together, in his prologue, the saints in whom can be said "Christ lives in you," and "hope" and "glory" just as Paul had already introduced and defined. And John did not change a thing Paul already said.

Jesus was born, at which time he received a name, "Jesus," which served to identify him while he grew in wisdom and in stature, and in favour with God and men, and when he was fully grown, and had died, had been resurrected, and had ascended by 33 a.d., received a name, "The logos of God" between the time when it was published in 69 a.d., and 96 a.d.

when John ties the personification in the saints, to Jesus, who received the name; but it was not who and what he was; it was a name received. Just as my grandson "Christian" was not "a Christian" until he accepted, obeyed, and became "a Christian." He was already "Christian" when he became "a Christian;" So also, Jesus was never "the logos of God" but was given the name after he successfully completed his mission and was extolled and made very high [Isa 52:13], and given a name above every name.[Phil 2:9-11][Eph 1:19-23]

People have him already pre-existing as "the logos of God" and recognized as the personification of "the logos of God" at his birth when in fact, the terminology did not even exist until 69 a.d.

When I look at a saint in whom Christ lives, I see "the logos of God" personified, and "behold the glory as of glory of an only begotten son of God."

When John in his epistles [1st and 2nd John] speaks of "Jesus Christ came in flesh," he is not speaking of the birth of Jesus, he is speaking of "Christ living in me, in my flesh" spoken of by Paul - "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."[Gal 2:20]

There is no way you can find a place to separate Paul's life in the flesh after his conversion to Christ, from Jesus Christ living in Paul.

Furthermore, John himself said "Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in flesh is of God:" I John 4:2)

John did not use the article, and neither should we if we are going to understand exactly what John is saying. He is not speaking of Jesus own body of his flesh, for then he would have said "Jesus came in the flesh," and everybody would be in agreement.

But John did not say that , he said "Jesus Christ came in flesh," which he did when he lived in Paul "in the flesh." And to show it is no mistake of language, John repeats in II John 7 "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist."

In neither verse does John use either the aorist tense or imperfect verbs, which would be necessary if he was speaking of the life of Jesus in his flesh; but John used a perfect active participle when he said - "... Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in flesh is of God:"

The significance of the "perfect active" is that Jesus has accomplished to the fullest, the fact of "com["-ing" in flesh" as he lives in the lives of the saints. It is not a reference to his having been born "in the flesh."

This becomes significant when we consider Paul's words -"For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."[Rom 5:10]

The present participle in II Jn 7, which if you know anything about Greek participles, they are "-ing" words, and being present tense, means that in 85 - 90 a.d., John is saying Jesus is still com["-ing" in flesh.

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by DearOldDad
tu xorektt spellynge

[Jostler]

Quote

Jhn 1:1

¶

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

He was in the beginning with God.

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

In the beginning, before creation the Logos was

The Logos was with God

The Logos was God

HE....the Word personified, Who is God, was with God in the beginning.

The Logos was present at creation (well I guess so since He's God) and nothing that has been made was made apart from Him

Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.....and the Logos

[DearOldDad]

Quote

Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.....and the Logos

The Logos WAS God-

Jesus IS the image of God-

Not the same affiliation.

The logos changed, God did NOT.

The logos became NOT-GOD; (Flesh) - God remained God.

Jesus cannot be corrupted.

The logos was corrupted.

2 Cor 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt The Logos Of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

The Logos Of God is corrupted by those who do not follow what the scripture has to say about it. "The Logos Of God" is the title of a blueprint in the mind of God, that provides the means of "Christ living in you, in your flesh." And Paul explained it very well to the whole world.

 

Then MAN came along and corrupted it by changing the order of the books, placing Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John at the front. John's gospel was the LAST book written,(96 a.d.); Mathew was the 5th book written.

Galatians was the 2nd book, James was 1st.

But Satan convinced the early teachers to begin teaching new converts with "The Life Of Christ" to begin, followed by the history of the growth of the church (Book of Acts); after which it didn't matter in what order they were taught. 

Many men were killed in the old testament for taking things out of order.

 

God always insisted his people follow instructions in their correct order -

Exo 25:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses,
 8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
 9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.
 10 And they shall make an ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof.
 11 And thou shalt overlay it with pure gold, within and without shalt thou overlay it, and shalt make upon it a crown of gold round about.
 12 And thou shalt cast four rings of gold for it, and put them in the four corners thereof; and two rings shall be in the one side of it, and two rings in the other side of it.
 13 And thou shalt make staves of shittim wood, and overlay them with gold.
 14 And thou shalt put the staves into the rings by the sides of the ark, that the ark may be borne with them.
 15 The staves shall be in the rings of the ark: they shall not be taken from it.

2 Sam 6:3 And they set the ark of God upon a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab that was in Gibeah: and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drave the new cart."
 4 And they brought it out of the house of Abinadab which was at Gibeah, accompanying the ark of God: and Ahio went before the ark.
 5 And David and all the house of Israel played before the LORD on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals.
 6 And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it.
 7 And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.
 8 And David was displeased, because the LORD had made a breach upon Uzzah: and he called the name of the place Perezuzzah to this day.
 9 And David was afraid of the LORD that day, and said, How shall the ark of the LORD come to me?
 10 So David would not remove the ark of the LORD unto him into the city of David: but David carried it aside into the house of Obededom the Gittite.
 11 And the ark of the LORD continued in the house of Obededom the Gittite three months: and the LORD blessed Obededom, and all his household.

"And said unto them, Ye are the chief of the fathers of the Levites: sanctify yourselves, both ye and your brethren, that ye may bring up the ark of the LORD God of Israel unto the place that I have prepared for it. 13 For because ye did it not at the first, the LORD our God made a breach upon us, for that we sought him not after the due order ." [I Chr 15:12-13]

"And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the LORD in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the LORD"[I Chron 23:31]

"And they burn unto the LORD every morning and every evening burnt sacrifices and sweet incense: the shewbread also set they in order upon the pure table; and the candlestick of gold with the lamps thereof, to burn every evening: for we keep the charge of the LORD our God; but ye have forsaken him."[II Chr 13:11]

Psalm 119:133 Order my steps in thy word:and let not any iniquity have dominion over me.

(50 a.d.)1 Thes 3:11 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.

(51 a.d.)2 Thes 3:5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.

Paul considered it important -
(54 a.d.)1 Cor 11:34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

(54 a.d.)I Cor 14:40 "Let all things be done decently and in order."

GNT 1 Cor 14:40 ginesthw = verb imperative  present middle (or pass dep)  3rd person singular. [NOTE: "Imperative" verb indicates it is NOT an option. It is demanded of Men by God.

Even the resurrection has its own order -
(54 a.d.)I Cor 15:23 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

(55 a.d.)II Cor 2:17 "For we are not as many, which corrupt the logos of God:"

Luke took pains to tell us
(58 a.d.)Luke 1:1-3 "Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, 2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; 3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,"

(58 a.d.)Luke 1:8 And it came to pass, that while he executed the priest's office before God in the order of his course,

(58 a.d.)Luke 1:79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

Maintaining "order" was basic in the early church -
(60 a.d.)Col 2:5 "For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding yourorder, and the steadfastness of your faith in Christ."

(61 a.d.)Acts 3:24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Peter thought it necessary.
(61 a.d.)Acts 11:4 "But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them..."

(61 a.d.)Acts 18:23 And after he had spent some time there, he departed, and went over all the country of Galatia and Phrygia in order, strengthening all the disciples.

Paul wrote to Titus
(65 a.d.)Titus 1:5 "For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:"

(66 a.d.)II Pet 3:15-17 "..even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest(turn or twist awry), as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness."

Everything about God's kingdom demand "order" and proper arrangement, including the reading of the books, in the order the Holy Spirit inspired them to be written.

Now it's your turn. Please show me the verses that tell you you can take God's words out of Holy-Spirit-Inspired-Order, the very thing all of scripture warns against;

Chronology of the New Testament is approximately along the lines of -
 DOD.......PHILLIP.SCHAFF...Cath.Encyclopedia

45...........James.......45......44-62
48...........Gal.........48......57
50...........I Thess.....50......52-53
51..........II THESS.....51......52-53
52..........MATHEW.......52......60-70
54..........I COR........54......57
55..........II COR.......55......57
56..........ROMANS.......56......58
58..........LUKE.........58......60-70
60..........COLOSSIANS...60......61-63
60..........EPHESIANS....60......61-63
60..........PHILEMON.....60......61-63
61..........PHILIPPIANS..61......61-63
61..........ACTS.........61......60-70
64/65.......I TIMOTHY....64......64-67
64/65.......TITUS........64......64-67
64/65.......I PETER......65......64-67
66/67.......II PETER.....66......64-67
67/68.......II TIMOTHY...67......64-67
69..........APOKALYPSE...69......68-69
70..........HEBREWS......70......70
70..........MARK.........70......60-70
75..........JUDE.........75......64-67
85/90.......I JOHN.............80-90
85/90.......II JOHN............80-90
85/90.......III JOHN...........80-90
96..........GOSPEL JOHN........80-90

When the early teachers were convinced by Satan to mix and match the order of the testament, the church began to imagine all manner of false doctrines, and to not only teach them, but began to kill those with whom they disagreed; so that by the time Trinity doctrine was being declared "Orthodoxy,"(451 a.d.) they had also turned church discipline over to the civil authority for execution of "Heretics" who denied their newly ordained "Orthodox" doctrine. And when that happened, (452 a.d.), God gave Man a sign of His displeasure, which none recognized enough to write of it. It was a 1000 year judgment of "Dark Ages" lasting till 1452, when the bible was first off the new invention, the printing press, and was given to the common Member, instead of to the CLERGY, and Men never looked back, but progressed to the point we sent a man to the Moon.

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by DearOldDad

[Eddy Crocker]

    John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 

I was kicked out of a church for saying the Bible is not the word of God. The Bible is only the words of God, (plural) that lead me to the word of God (singular) which is a person.

Jeremiah 1:4

Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 

Every time you hear when it says the word of the Lord came unto me, It wasn’t the Bible flapping its pages speaking to the prophets but it was the person God (Elohim) that was communicating unto them in divine dreams, revelations  or visions. 

Its not that God cannot speak through the words (Logos) and bring you to himself which is (Rhema) in Greek which means living or God breathed spoken by him in utterance.
Mathew 4:4...But He answered and said, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.’”

This the difference between Logos and Rhema. Living by bread alone is living by physical natural sustenance which is the Logos or the letter of scripture which is only an about knowledge.

Living by every word that proceeds out of his mouth is being one with him and we are substained by his life that’s within us that we are one with. We are his mouth that speaks our life as proof of that union or oneness.

This is why Paul says, Its no longer I that liveth but Christ within me. Jesus says, my words are not my own but the father that’s within me. Whatever I hear that is what I speak. 

1 Corinthians5: 16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Knowing Christ after the flesh is like only knowing the logos or the letter of scripture. You can only be obedient unto external commands. The disciples had to deny Jesus according to the flesh so that the outward command of the Logos could change into an inward command.

This is why the next verse says this..

1 Corinthians 5:17 

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The old things that passes away is knowing Jesus in a new and living way not after the flesh (Logos) But to know him after the Spirit (Rhema) the Holy Spirit. 
We must all deny Jesus after the flesh in order for us to know him by the Spirit.

[Jostler]

4 hours ago, DearOldDad said:

The Logos WAS God-

Jesus IS the image of God-

Not the same affiliation.

The logos changed, God did NOT.

The logos became NOT-GOD; (Flesh) - God remained God.

 

 

 

Quote

Jhn 1:1

¶

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

He was in the beginning with God.

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

 

 

Jhn 1:14

¶

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

You say one thing, the Bible says something different.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Jostler

[Eddy Crocker]

14 hours ago, Jostler said:

In the beginning, before creation the Logos was

The Logos was with God

The Logos was God

HE....the Word personified, Who is God, was with God in the beginning.

The Logos was present at creation (well I guess so since He's God) and nothing that has been made was made apart from Him

Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.....and the Logos

This is why people don’t understand the Bible correctly because they don’t know the true names of God and how they are used.  

John 1:1 supposed to say according to the true names. In the beginning was the word and the word was with Yahweh and the word was Yahweh.

Jesus,( Yashua ) is the word this verse is talking about. Yashua (Jesus) is the word of Yahweh. You can’t expect to use Lord and God as interchangeable when it comes to important issues like this in the Bible. 
Elohim is plural for the reason that the son which is God came from the father. He was The only begotten of the father. You still have the masculine portion of himself which is Lord or (Yahweh). God (Elohim) is the feminine which is manifested from the Weh part of the name of Yahweh which means, mother, matter, or material.

It was the father that materialized himself through his word through the feminine side of himself Jesus that Great Holy Spirit.
Ignorance is a breeding ground for why people make these mistakes. 
Another example we can see in scripture people using Lord and God interchangeably is in....

John 1:14
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

This scripture is false because it should say nobody has seen the Lord  (Yahweh) and lived. It says  in Exodus 24:10
And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. 
This verse shows us they saw God. This is a clear example of why we need to use the true names of God so we don’t distort the truth.

[George]

@DearOldDad  Is Jesus God in the flesh?  

[Eddy Crocker]

John 14:8-10 King James Version (KJV)

⁸ Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

⁹ Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

¹⁰ Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 
 

Jesus also says he’s the Lord of the Sabbath. The only one that claimed to be the Lord of the Sabbath was Yahweh. He was claiming to be Yahweh and also God. This is why the Jews were picking up stones to stone him because they understood blasphemy against God was punishable by death.
 

 I totally believe that Jesus is God clearly stated in scripture. 

[DearOldDad]

On 4/13/2020 at 2:11 PM, Jostler said:

You say one thing, the Bible says something different.

The bible says one thing, the TRANSLATORS say something different. Look to the GREEK of the verses.

For example examine the GREEK of Eph 3:9:

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things }by Jesus Christ{:

GNT Eph 3:9 kai fwtisai pantas tis ee` oikonomia tou musteeriou tou apokekrummenou apo twn aiwnwn en tw Thew tw ta panta ktisanti.

Now compare Eph 3:9 GREEK with  John 1:17

 John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

GNT John 1:17 oti o` nomos dia Mwusews edothee ee` xaris kai ee` aleetheia dia Ieesou Xristou egeneto

John 1:17 demonstrates what the Greek should look like to provide the translators with the phrase "By Jesus Christ."

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by DearOldDad
tu xorektt spellynge

[DearOldDad]

On 4/13/2020 at 1:41 PM, Eddy Crocker said:

    John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 

I was kicked out of a church for saying the Bible is not the word of God. The Bible is only the words of God, (plural) that lead me to the word of God (singular) which is a person.

"The Logos Of God" as referenced by Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles by God's appointment thereunto, is a reference to the title of the blueprint in the mind of God, for "Christ living in me, in my flesh" as Paul puts it.

Jeremiah 1:4

Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, 

Every time you hear when it says the word of the Lord came unto me, It wasn’t the Bible flapping its pages speaking to the prophets but it was the person God (Elohim) that was communicating unto them in divine dreams, revelations  or visions. 

Its not that God cannot speak through the words (Logos) and bring you to himself which is (Rhema) in Greek which means living or God breathed spoken by him in utterance.
Mathew 4:4...But He answered and said, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.’”

This the difference between Logos and Rhema. Living by bread alone is living by physical natural sustenance which is the Logos or the letter of scripture which is only an about knowledge.

Living by every word that proceeds out of his mouth is being one with him and we are substained by his life that’s within us that we are one with. We are his mouth that speaks our life as proof of that union or oneness.

This is why Paul says, Its no longer I that liveth but Christ within me. Jesus says, my words are not my own but the father that’s within me. Whatever I hear that is what I speak. 

1 Corinthians5: 16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

Knowing Christ after the flesh is like only knowing the logos or the letter of scripture. You can only be obedient unto external commands. The disciples had to deny Jesus according to the flesh so that the outward command of the Logos could change into an inward command.

This is why the next verse says this..

1 Corinthians 5:17 

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The old things that passes away is knowing Jesus in a new and living way not after the flesh (Logos) But to know him after the Spirit (Rhema) the Holy Spirit. 
We must all deny Jesus after the flesh in order for us to know him by the Spirit.