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Jostler

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Jostler last won the day on June 20 2019

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  1. I think both, and would include a third. I think it obscures understanding of the real role He has assigned to us "in that day". A day of finally answering 2000 years of exhorting His people to pray "Thy KINGDOM come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven". And realizing that includes a harvest, so huge humanity has never seen one like it in human history. We have been assigned a role to play in both manifestation of His Kingdom and that harvest, which is impossible to see as long as we believe His plan is to get us out of here.....
  2. well there are a few vocal ones, but i kinda doubt they're the majority
  3. i try to adhere to the maxim "If the plain sense, makes sense, seek no other sense." That by no means exhausts all the examples .... Ephesians 4.....mentions the body specifically.....many other places allude to it.
  4. That's my best understanding too. I perceive righteousness more as a "state of being" than a set of "works". Out OF that state of being works consistent WITH the state of being righteous will naturally flow. The two certainly go hand in hand....but He gave to us, in Him, what only He could attain....a state of being "right" with God, and the power of the indwelling Spirit to walk in ways consistent with that. Thank God He is generous and likes sharing
  5. Is a many membered Bride such a far fetched idea for a many membered Body/Bridegroom?
  6. When we receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit, and begin to pray in tongues, He does not "take over". That's what satan and his minions try to do. Praying in tongues is yielding our speech to Him, allowing Him to pray Father's perfect will for us, through us. It's a way to pray, praise, and engage in prayer when we don't know exactly what we should pray for...or how. It allows the Holy Spirit to intercede for us, when we're unsure exactly how to pray. He doesn't turn us into a rag doll or cause us to become something/someone different. It doesn't make us family He already did that, but it might make us more aware of, and more confident in our feeling like we truly are in His family There is more to it as well....but that's enough to shout hallelujah about all by itself
  7. I understand righteousness to be "right standing with God". That's the short version anyway some rambles/meditations on the topic are worthwhile too...the implications are massive...and encouraging
  8. There is a clear sequence of events outlined there. The fact Paul doesn't mention specific time frames doesn't negate that...the sequence is clear, aligns with Rev 20:4-6 perfectly....and the next verses expand on that. We're told exactly when death is destroyed in Rev 20:14 Until death is destroyed, the last enemy, He (Jesus) must continue to rule and reign as the SOLE authority in both heaven and earth. After the Judgement a new or renewed heavens and earth appear, Jesus returns His authority to Father, job done.....the restoration of all the consequences of the fall, the reversal of ALL the works of the devil complete. The sequence is clear, and in agreement with all the other Scriptures. It wasn't necessary to mention the specific intervals between steps to demonstrate the sequence of events There's no mention of a 2000 year interval between redemption and wrath in the passage Jesus read from Isaiah 61 either.... (speaking of Himself)....but here we are.....2000yrs later...still waiting for the "day of vengeance".
  9. To me it looks simple. It looks to me like the first resurrection is a limited one, with a specific purpose....to govern with Him during the millennial reign. The general resurrection seems to occur when Father returns at the end of that age. I understand why you would see it that way .Because I believe the first resurrection and the second death is the very end of this world, each and every person in Christ "reigns" with Him into eternity (metaphorically speaking "1000" years) as "priests" (another metaphor). I don't believe God made this very complicated .When Christ comes, so does the kingdom. No more sin and death. Jesus has no reason to be reigning in a particular part of the world that's still sin cursed for another thousand years- that's just not found in scripture. actually it is. Descriptions of the Millennial reign in the OT speak of a time when nature has been partially restored, carnivores become grazers, and men's lifetimes are extended to apparently pre-flood lenghts, but death still takes them. There IS a reason why He does not put death under His feet until the end of that age (which coincides with the end of the world). The Bible clearly portrays a distinct interval between satan's temporary incarceration at the return of Jesus, being loosed for a short season at the end of the millennial reign, a major rebellion which is put down by Father's return and then satan, death and hades are permanently consigned to the lake of fire, where the beast and false prophet already are.
  10. that is my understanding as well.....One occurs at the second coming of Jesus, and includes a very specific subset of the Church....called martyrs. The other coincides with Fathers return, some thousand years later....at the "last day". Those raised at Jesus' resurrection seem to be the "firstfruits" offering sanctifying the first harvest at the end of this age. The resurrection of "the rest of the dead" at the "last day" when Father returns to receive His Kingdom ..AFTER the last enemy (death) is put under Jesus feet at the Judgement. To me it looks simple. It looks to me like the first resurrection is a limited one, with a specific purpose....to govern with Him during the millennial reign. The general resurrection seems to occur when Father returns at the end of that age. i read very literally....so that appears to me to define exactly what the "last day" Jesus referred to is. As long as the earth remains, the last day is yet to come. One day, the sun will go down and not come up again, because the heavens and the earth have been rolled up like a scroll, and a new heavens and earth untouched by sin will be seen...after the Judgement. Eden restored, heaven and earth reunited as they were united in the Garden, and because of the love of the Son, direct fellowship between Father and His created family is restored and He can once more walk with them in the cool of the day, in this realm, as He so enjoyed doing with Adam before the fall. His creation once again restored to a pure and holy state compatible with Father's presence. There's a lot more involved....but that should be enough pot stirring for one post
  11. There is a mystery in the "one flesh" proclamations regarding marriage. It is a reflection of the mystery of the Trinity....an "image" of it. How can two become one yet maintain a unique expression of identity.? How is it that Jesus is God, the Spirit is God, the Father is God and "they" are ONE? I can't explain how you can use "they" and "one" in the same sentence logically speaking. Yet that is clearly what the Bible teaches. I still see two individuals even after a holy union is consummated among men. Yet they, in some very real fashion are one. It's worth some exploration. I do not believe the Body and the Bride are synonymous, yet they are (will be) ONE. The only way I've been able to feel as if I were getting a grasp on this, came as a revelation which satisfies me as far as it goes. There is still a mystery beyond what my carnal mind can grasp. But, consider the possibility that the word "ekklesia" is used in two different ways. Ekklesia is translated as "church" the very first time it is used in Scripture. Which is when Peter identified Jesus conclusively as the Messiah, and Jesus said "Upon this rock, I will build my ekklesia...." The word has a strong connotation of "called out"....and i'm comfortable we are indeed "called out" of the world's system, to be set apart, different, unique, peculiar. I'm comfortable understanding there is a Body, called out of the world to be His own. But what man marries his own body? None i know of . What if the Bride is an "ekklesia of the ekklesia"? Called out of the Body, just as the Body is called out of the world? I am reluctant to relate some of my personal experiences with the manifest presence of the Lord, but I'm going to make an exception. But, please don't hear me saying "thus sayeth the Lord" and trying to claim a divine authority that excludes questions or additional information being brought to bear. As I sought Him over a period of time, to understand the Bride, I was granted an experience of Him that was as real as if He had walked into my kitchen and sat down opposite me. In which I heard a phrase, that had never crossed my mind, I wasn't smart enough to think of on my own. "In a time of slumber and sleep, Father reaches into the Body, extracts a "rib", and in His secret place, forms and fashions a Bride, an helpmeet suitable for His Son." And it dawned on me, that just maybe, the LAST Adam receives His Bride exactly the same way the first Adam did. In the years since that experience, i have not found a way to unequivocally "prove" that revelation from Scripture. But neither have I found any disqualifying Scripture. And I have found that it fits very well with a lot of other stuff....there is other evidence, just not enough I know of yet to try to claim this as doctrine all must believe. For now that is my working hypothesis....your mileage may vary. I don't think He's going to settle for an idolatrous wife, making goo-goo eyes at Him over the table, while playing footsie with the idolatrous harlot world system underneath it.
  12. That looks pretty plain spoken to me as well.
  13. Well, i guess we can agree to disagree As I understand it, there is only one Church, and it's His, not the Pope's He isn't defined by any of the labels men choose to hang over the doors of physical buildings.
  14. Where's George Thorogood when you really need him? (lol)
  15. If I'm understanding the assumption behind the question properly: "Sin entered the picture, Adam and Eve ceased to be "true humans." I'm not sure the assumption the question is founded on is correct. Adam was human, so was Eve. Before the fall they were pure in God's sight, after the fall they were defiled. Their spirits died. But that changed how they experienced and expressed their "true humanity".....i don't see that it changed their humanity. As far as I can tell, they went from humans alive to God, to humans dead to God....but still fully human. The answer to death is life. To be born again. Which is the primary reason God manifested Himself as a man.....son of Adam....Son of Man. To pay the price for that new birth and make a way for the spirits of men to once more live to God.
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