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Jostler last won the day on June 20

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  1. I am doing my best to be led in how to open up some of this, so if it seems I am hopping around, please forgive me. Its a bit difficult to highlight the fact that the answers for survivors are really no different than any of our spiritual needs and processes of growth, His answers are the same for both, but survivors come from a place where understanding and employing those answers face hurdles of "belief" few of us singletons can even relate to. For survivors, who have been PROGRAMMED with lies so powerful, one of the most devastating misunderstandings of how He works is horrifically reinforced by the idea that we are saved by grace, but keep our salvation by works. It simply is not true. What we are able to receive and experience as reality in this life is determined by what we BELIEVE. THAT, and that alone, believing, is the ONLY work He has assigned us....and even that "work" is not a physical action, but a choice. In the following passage, some sincere disciples who genuinely desired to serve and be pleasing to God asked Jesus what they needed to do in order to "do the works of God". You can tell from the context THEY had their minds on miracles, expressions of God's power manifest in the earth, as they had seen Jesus doing. The work of just BELIEVING is difficult, and frankly it's all we can handle. All of us have probably been deceived into believing we have to DO something to please Him. Listen, He is pleased with us already because of WHO He created us to be, not because of anything we can do. When we believe, we WILL find physical deeds, good works flowing out of our lives, but it must be HIM working through us before the works have any meaning at all. We are commanded to enter into His REST, ceasing from our own works and "doing" only what we see Him doing, and speaking as if speaking the oracles of God, saying only what we "hear" Him saying. Lets try to take a look at the relationship between believing and faith. There are many misunderstandings of faith as well. Faith is A GIFT from God. "We" don't have ANY faith BUT the faith we are given. We cannot grow it, increase it or modify it in any way. The Words of God, both those contained in His written Word and those living "rhema" Words He speaks into our own spirits and hearts bring WITH THEM all the faith necessary to manifest the promises contained within the meaning and intent of His Words. The ONLY relationship we have to His Words and the faith they contain is whether or not we choose to BELIEVE Him. If we believe, then the faith in those Words becomes our possession and becomes a "force" out of which we live, we simply RECEIVE His faith, and our believing Him makes that faith effective in bringing His will to pass in our lives. What we believe is very important. It determines what we can experience of His blessings. One thing to keep in mind, is that EVERYTHING we will ever receive from Him is received exactly the same way our salvation is. By the grace of God (unearned, unmerited favor), THROUGH faith in the Words we hear. If we picture God, extending to us with outstretched hand, a beautiful, priceless jewel, inviting us to take it as our own, a gift, and offer......He has "legally" transferred possession of that jewel and ownership of it. Yet, do we at this point POSSESS the jewel? No, we do not. It remains in His hand. But when we BELIEVE, it is our belief that reaches out and receives the His freely offered gift. It is belief that receives the gift of faith bound up in the Word given, and releases it to begin bringing that Word to pass in our own lives. Every one of us has a problem with having believed lies as if they were true. In our soul, the mind, will and emotions, we have been tricked by powerful experiences into believing things that God has said are lies are actually true. For survivors who have undergone literal fracturing of and programming of their minds this is a doubly difficult thing to overcome. Those programmers specifically design the programming via trauma to implant lies so deeply and forcefully they become VERY difficult to root out. Thank God NOTHING IS TOO DIFFICULT FOR HIM. Lets take a look at His process for the salvation of our souls. It is a process of identifying LIES believed as if they were true, showing them to us, showing us the TRUTH....and in that giving us an opportunity to CHOOSE to believe Him over the lies we previously believed. Here is the "process" Jesus engages in preparing His own Bride: Whether we are washed and cleansed is determined by what we believe. And this is how the process is engaged by us, from our perspective. I have heard all kinds of things "layered" onto this passage about spiritual warfare....some may even be true....the Scripture is multi-layered in meaning and passages often address more than one truth at a time. BUT, the part I want to focus on here is how this warfare applies to the transformation...renewing of the MIND and EMOTIONS and how it relates to what we believe. Notice that the spiritual weapons we are to employ are for the tearing down of strongholds, and those strongholds are identified as THOUGHTS...what we believe. Arguments and thoughts that attempt to exalt themselves against knowing Him for Who He really is, in TRUTH. He IS TRUTH. This primary expression of spiritual warfare involves tearing down strongholds in our own souls. In our minds...LIES we have been enticed to believe that try to tell us He is lying, lies that make it difficult for us to believe His Words and live by the faith in them. This is the process we ALL must engage. But for the survivor, it is far more difficult and requires a level of tenacity few of us who have not been mistreated in these ways have ever endured. Thank God it is His power, and HIS FAITH that energize this process. If it were up to us, our power and our "faith" ( we don't have any but what we are given and have no power to generate any) we'd have no hope. In Him is hope and He is sufficient to the task. Please take note of the relationship between renewing of the mind (thoughts and emotions) and lies. We were designed to be transformed into the image of what we BEHOLD. What we allow to go on in our minds determines what we are BECOMING. What we behold is what we are giving our attention to. If we choose to ponder on, and let our minds be filled with the challenges of the trials and processes, our progress is hindered. If we choose to run to His presence, in spite of all the mental and emotional confusion, and behold Him and His promises, engaging the work of believing, He will make the transformation we need, by His own power. When the storms are raging, and the night seems at it's darkest, be sure to remind yourself that HE will finish in you the precious work He has begun.....BELIEVE! Father i praise You and thank You for all You are doing, I ask You to fill these with Your presence, cause them to know the baptism in Your Spirit, be their peace and give them full assurance that no matter how long the battle, how intense the fight, You WILL finish what You have begun in each of us. Father as an act of our own will we CHOOSE to believe Your Words above every lying stronghold that attempts to exalt itself above the knowledge of You. We allow, and invite Your Words to take up residence in our hearts, to do all that You desire Him to do, to transform us into the very image of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ....amen
  2. Dennis I'm another one who He seems to have given an inquisitive nature and a desire to at least attempt to peer into the unknowable. I fully believe what is absolutely unknowable to us by any power or perception we have is fully known to Him and He can reveal them to us. Time and it's nature and purpose have also been a particularly interesting topic to me. I'll just lay out a few points, some I'm pretty confident of, and some that are pretty speculative and might be totally "off" I find it a fun exercise and enjoy pondering it in any case. I really believe He meant what He promised there What I feel confident of: 1. God created time and therefore is not bound by its limitations. He stands above all He has created, and fills it, but is not limited by any of it. 2. It is popular to say that Heaven is timeless.....but is that really true? In Revelation we see a picture of the Throne room, the seat of the presence of Father, and it seems that even if that realm is not bound by time, events there can at least sometimes be measured by it? Not sure what to do with this or how to understand it, but there is proof here that the third heaven does at least relate to time, in some significant fashion: Fun speculation: 1. Given many of the things you already mentioned I am also familiar with (the relative nature of time, time slowing down....etc) I find it interesting that the relationship between time and light (speed) reveals something interesting. I find it interesting that light is the ONLY thing perceivable by our natural senses that is NOT limited by time. I think Jesus was very good about leaving little clues to His nature in little statements He made but couched in terms that would only be heard and remarked upon by people who know Him...little claims and proofs of Who He is given to those with ears to hear. In the Greek that phrase "I am" is "ego eimi", which just happens to be exactly how you would translate YWHW, the name God revealed to Moses at the burning bush. The "I am" the eternally, self-existent One. He is God, He is the Light, He is Truth, He is the Word, and He is the one and only Way to Father. And He transcends time. 2. Given the apparent fact that once we step out of these flesh bodies we seem to step into a realm that isn't dominated by time's limitations, I speculate that time might be the "agent" that keeps us limted to very linear perceptions of events and a "sequential" perception of existence. In Him, after the new birth, it seems we already have access to the spirit realm and HAVE entered eternity in a significant way. I don't believe our spirits are bound by the limitations of time any more at all. We will never see death. This flesh will lose it's vitality and return to the dust it came from, but we are alive to Him at the new birth, never to be separated from Him again. 3. There is a lot of indication in current scientific research that places like CERN may well be being used to study the "time barrier" and learn ways around it...ways to manipulate it and there is reason to believe some of those hurdles may already have been overcome behind the scenes, hidden from our sight...so far. got a lot more I'd like to go into but out of time for the moment.....fun topic though
  3. Refresher, there is also a forum specifically intended to receive prayer requests and many prayer warriors who are called specifically to prayer for the Body monitor that forum and pray faithfully. You can click on this link and make a thread requesting prayer there as well and it will more easily come to the notice of those who love to pray https://www.worthychristianforums.com/forum/8-prayer-requests/
  4. I also believe there is a mystery involved in the Trinity our natural minds simply cannot fully apprehend. But I think it can still be very productive to make the attempt. The analogy I find most helpful to me personally is ice, water and steam. Same fundamental substance, manifesting in three very different forms under different conditions. No analogy is perfect, but that one does help me conceptualize how He can be three and yet fully One. At one time years ago I spent some time really pondering on Him and trying to gain a better understanding. I was led to a visual analogy, or parable? Not sure what to call it. But I perceived a 4 tiered step pyramid, the odd thing was it was upside down. Resting on the point or smallest tier. It was clear as glass and there was a sword plunged downward through the heart of the pyramid with the point of the sword reaching to the bottom limit. The hilt of the sword stood above the crystal structure and was deeply engraved with the word TRUTH. The context this fell into was a season when I was also studying and deeply interested in what science is calling "dimensions" I became convinced (still am) that what science calls dimensions is what the Bible has always called the spirit realm and "heavens". The picture related in my mind to Paul's explanation of Psalm 68:18: Jesus was appointed to descend for our sakes, took our punishment in death and then ascended and filled ALL things with Himself. He IS Truth: I think it's possible to imagine that deepest point of that inverted pyramid as the third heaven, the Throne of God and the "heaven" from which all other heavens were created. In that condition God is manifest as Father. In the layer above it (2 dimensions?) we might perceive the Spirit, God in the realms of spiritual reality. In the three dimensions where we live in the flesh God is manifest as Jesus.... I think there are several possible ways to look at that visual analogy and i think each of them just might reveal at least a conceptual handle to wrestle with understanding this reality of the Trinity. But as I said before, I sincerely doubt we'll fully apprehend His nature while in this flesh.
  5. IMO as ForHisGlory pointed out, it's a matter of perspective. Obviously He is perfect. But what He chose to do for me out of love for me, when I cared nothing for Him, loved no-one but myself and is not only reckless from a human perspective, it's insane. I cannot comprehend that kind of love.....thank You Lord Jesus. Those who are forgiven much, love much....and marvel.
  6. wow....hadn't heard this in so long I'd forgotten it thanks for the reminder
  7. The Singing Plowman by John Wright Follette God’s plow struck deep within my heart And plowed long furrows, one by one, Through fallow ground so hard and firm, From early morn till set of sun. The plow-share was eternal truth Which tore the hidden roots in me And turned them to the light and air Till self-hood lay a field set free. I felt Him walk each furrow plowed, I knew He felt the briars sting, The field was His– it was His joy, For lo, I heard the plowman sing. He only plowed that He might sow, There must be seed to scatter wide. And then I felt His presence near, He stood in silence by my side. And so I gave Him all of me– My hopes, and dreams and inner throne. All these He scattered far and near, And left me naught to call my own. They fell like seed in furrows deep, And all were buried neath the sod. All that I had went down in death To wait the mighty breath of God. He did not leave me then alone To mourn the loss of earthly things, To be thus stripped gave greater place For life His radiant presence brings. How could I grieve for heart thus plowed? I covet now no sweeter thing Than wait with Him the harvest day, And in the mean time hear Him sing. Big hugs Naomi....big hugs.
  8. I want to share a little personal experience here :). I also ascribe to the "KISS" principle though it may appear otherwise. I am fully confident that the Word is true....ALL OF IT...and that the fundamentals of the faith are so simple a five year old can comprehend them. BUT Over the years as I have sought to really study I have noticed a pattern. I have found in many studies that I begin gathering bits and pieces and come to a place where i have something analogous to a table full of jigsaw pieces i know MUST have some relationship to each other but i just have no clue how they fit together. Frustrating apparent complexity....sometimes I've been tempted to despair of ever being able to see a coherent picture. But I have found that if I stick with it, He will be faithful to begin showing me how the pieces form a coherent picture, and very often a day comes when He'll point out a significant, unifying piece that very suddenly resolves the mess into a beautiful tapestry of truth that suddenly becomes so SIMPLE to see you wonder why you didn't see it from the start. There truly is mind bogging richness and complexity to wade through to get back to that simplicity of understanding of Him and His plans. I trust He will bring the simplicity into view, if we can abide dealing with the complexity for long enough. I'm going to ask you for a bit more grace here, and a willingness to consider with Him what I am about to say. This is not a topic I can cover in detail for some time, but I request you consider the possibility that the "sin unto death" is not equal to the "unforgiveable sin" which is blasphemy of the Spirit. This is another place where nuances matter, and it's necessary to go into some complexity to establish this from the Word. I believe I can "prove" my assertion and show that Paul was warning the Corinthians about the "sin unto death" and some of them were in fact dying. But willfully continuing in sin, will lead to an early physical death...as it was doing in Corinth. The blasphemy of the Spirit is a different matter.... Here is where an understanding of the blasphemy of the Spirit is very helpful. And point taken. When we are born again we are no less possessed of a free will than before being born again, in fact our wills are liberated and set free in Him, and we are MORE responsible for how we exercise our wills....not less. It's a thought that makes me shudder, and I cannot imagine why in the world anyone would make a CHOICE to step out of His hand, but if we did, He would let us go. But woe to the one who should make such a choice. There is no more redemption for such a one, as He will NOT be returning to that cross again. I do NOT expect you to take all that on board without proof, just because i made an assertion. I'd be very blessed if you could just receive me as the Bereans did Paul, and go to the Word in His presence and say "What is this joker on about? Is he all wet? Is what he's saying true or not? Please let the Teacher guide me into all truth as is promised..." and search the Word to see if these things be true if that don't make you want to dance I don't know what could.....HALLELUJAH!
  9. bless you for your willingness to even consider the topic...understanding will come if you can just take this to Him and see what He thinks about it all. God willing I'll be trying to help with Biblical backgrounds and perspectives over time as well. Sis, some of this stuff is so hard for many to believe I feel like it's imperative to get some Bible on the table to give a context for some of the more unbelievable parts of survivor's reality, lest I choke people and produce the very rejection that has already been such a horrible issue. Please grant me the blessing of patience. I'm a peddlin' as fast as i can
  10. @purity I'm within a few days of getting my first study on spirit, soul and body posted. But to prime the pump, let me just state up front the first general conclusion, and an opinion on why it matters. When we gain a Biblical understanding of how God created us as tripartite beings (in His image), and what roles each part plays in our existence, it provides a very solid framework from which to begin understanding our own internal workings. For years now, since first digging into this topic, I have been able to monitor my own "inside" workings and much better discern what is spiritual and what is of the realm of the soul. It's very helpful in pegging problems that need taking to Him in their proper context...understanding exactly what is coming from unregenerate/soulish places and discerning where the lies I'm believing really are and letting Him supplant those with His truth. When we study something like this, it is helpful to break them down into very specific, discrete topics, but....be aware that in practice, in our daily life they are often all in operation simultaneously and very difficult to separate and discern what is springing from which source. Since so much of what survivors must deal with is in that internal world, I think a good solid Biblical understanding will be quite helpful to them. And getting immersed in the Word of God is just as important for their progression and ultimate freedom as it is for anyone who is His. One thing we need to understand if we are called to walk with these, is that their ultimate needs are no different than our own. We need to encourage them FIRST in their personal relationship with Him. Second in the Word, and I mean encouraging them to pick it up, read and meditate on it themselves. As well as sharing out of the revelations He's placed in us already as well. So, lets begin with a loose framework to sort of reveal where we'll be going in much greater detail as this unfolds. The Bible indicates clearly that we are a three part being. And He wants ALL of us "sanctified" or "set apart" for a purpose...effective lives, witness of and service to Him: First lets establish a few things. 1. We ARE three part beings. This passage and many others "prove" that beyond any shadow of a doubt. We'll present more evidence of that as this proceeds. But it's a fundamental point. And one misconstrued and argued over endlessly. Please be content to just let the Word be the Word and make a firm commitment to just believe it. 2. His desire is to have ALL of us...in holiness! Not just part. He cannot touch anything that is not of the truth, until we submit what is not truth to Him and choose to believe what is true over anything we see, think, have experienced in the past, or currently feel. 3. And what I find the absolutely most encouraging part of this...the fact HE is taking responsibility for sanctifying us in holiness! Glory to God...we need to obey Him, NOTHING MORE. He will produce the setting apart and holiness Himself as we do nothing more than obey. Here is where we're going: 1. You ARE a spirit being. That is the fundamental essence of WHAT you are, just like our Heavenly Father who is Spirit. (in His likeness) 2. Your spirit possesses a soul, which is WHO you are. The soul consists of the mind (intellectual and rational thinking part), the will, and our emotions. It is what makes me, me, and you, you. Distinct personalities unique in our existence. 3. And both spirit and soul are housed in a flesh body. The body allows us to interact with this three dimensional world, handling and manipulating material things, and perceiving three dimensional reality. Here is part of what this means. 1. When we are born again, our spirits ARE SAVED. And this aspect of our existence is saved to the uttermost. It CANNOT BE UNSAVED. It is "born again" of INCORRUPTIBLE SEED. (this is important, especially for survivors to cling to...in the face of very, very strong programming assaulting them from inside themselves fully designed to convince them they are lost, irredeemable and without hope of salvation). At the new birth, what was DEAD, is given new life and we are translated out of the kingdom of darkness, with satan himself our spiritual father, and into the Kingdom of "His dear Son". We LEGALLY change families via adoption. We are HIS, a child of God...AND NOTHING can snatch us out of Jesus' hand. At this moment of rebirth, our spirits undergo such a profound transformation that God, who CANNOT be in the presence of sin, finds your human spirit a suitable place not only to visit...but to ABIDE in....unceasingly....never to leave nor forsake His place there again. 2. Our souls are not dealt with so thoroughly by the new birth. Upon entry of the Holy Spirit into our reborn spirits, He brings in with Him the power to begin engaging a PROCESS of salvation of the soul...the mind, will and emotions. This process is progressive and takes some time. It is outlined in 2nd Corinthians 10:4 & 5 and a number of other places...we'll dig deeper into that later. But I encourage you to read that now. 3. Our flesh ...bodies...are different still. The Bible witnesses that this flesh was so corrupted by original sin that it's lusts are in emnity to Him and CANNOT be reconciled to Him. The only solution for this nasty meatsack is for it to be shed in natural death, return to the dust it came from and be wholly replaced with a new body from heaven, fully compatible with both heaven and holiness, and fullly capable of interaction with mass, matter and able to perceive three dimensional reality. So it is accurate to say: 1. We ARE saved....to the uttermost in irreversible fashion....in our spirits. It's simultaneous with the new birth and a finished work. Perfected. 2. We are BEING SAVED. By the process of washing of the water of the Word, identifying lying strongholds in our own minds and emotions, and letting Him replace those lies we've been believing as if they were true, with His Word....His Word is Truth. This is the part of our salvation that can be "lost". If we fail to submit to His washing process, every unsanctified part of our soul will be denied entry into eternity with Him. Our destination is still assured, but this is SERIOUS. The consequences of continued rebellion or reservation of any part of our soul to "self" are horrible to imagine, and eternal losses. So even though our final destination is assured by spiritual rebirth, the condition we arrive in, the responsibility, authority and capabilities we will have once we get home are determined by how much of ourselves we submit to this transformative process here and now. 3. We WILL BE saved. Our "salvation" is incomplete until we have that new heavenly body to carry us into eternity. We will not experience the FULLNESS of everything He died for us to have until after the Judgement. The Holy Spirit was given as the "down payment" on His promise of the fullness of our salvation, to be fully realized in it's proper time. Enough of an introduction for now....more soon.
  11. there are too many of those for me to even consider ripping out the pages they're on to come to an understanding that we don't have a spirit
  12. one thing that has been overlooked entirely is the fact there are two words in the Hebrew translated as spirit or breath. The revelation of how we're constructed that comes when both are taken into account is very enlightening...and very important. In this account that "breath of life" is neshama, not ruach. https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5397&t=NKJV That's not a complete list....but it's a start for anyone that wants to get with Him and dig deeper. That's part of a more in depth study I'm working on for another thread...not quite complete yet but already quite eye-opening. note: verses are quoted from the NKJV Right now, I'm trying to hunt down evidence for a sneaking suspicion I got about the relationship between "pneuma" and "zoe" in the Greek. I'm thinking it _may_ be the NT Greek equivalent relationship between "ruach" and "neshama" in the OT if anyone wants to check with me i do need to find a stopping point for this study....lol...it's late already
  13. oh gosh....I hope they can at least pick up counterpoint and harmony
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