halifaxchristian Posted July 25, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 722 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 25, 2005 "Therefore, leaving the principals of the doctrine of Christ, let us GO ON UNTO PERFECTION; NOT LAYING AGAIN THE FOUNDATION OF REPENTANCE FROM DEAD WORKS, and of FAITH TOWARD GOD...And this we will do, if God permit. For it is IMPOSSIBLE FOR THOSE WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted of the good Word of God, and the powers to come, IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY TO RENEW THEM AGAIN UNTO REPENTANCE, seeing they crucify themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame."-Hebrews 6:1-6 The writer of Hebrews makes it very clear. If some one leaves the principals (foundations) of Christ's Gospel, they CANNOT LAY THE GROUNDWORK AGAIN. Why? It is IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once SAVED, if they FALL AWAY, to be renewed again unto REPENTANCE, seeing they SACRIFICE CHRIST AGAIN. This can, in light of the Bible as a whole, mean only one thing. You can't fall, get saved, fall, get saved, fall, get saved...because you NEVER LOST IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. The only other way of interpreting the above would be to assume that once you lost your salvation, you could never get it again. We all know that our God is not that type of God. His mercies are new every morning. Once you are saved, you are always saved. It is God that holdeth me up, because He is able to make me stand. "But, beloved, we are persuaded BETTER THINGS OF YOU, and things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION, though we thus speak."-Hebrews 6:9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnantrob Posted July 25, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/23/1982 Share Posted July 25, 2005 great question. I'll leave it to the pros and add my 2cents when i can. Redemption I believe Is paying an obligation for something that isn't yours.(i could be wrong) Christ died to redeem us from Satan. When God created man, man was to have dominion over this world. Satan deceived man and thus ownership was transferred to the devil. In the old days, I believe, when a person died, if his land was taken by another person, only a "next of kin" could redeem it for the family. I believe it is illustrated in the story of Ruth and Boaz. That's why Christ became one of us because only a man could redeem mankind, but no ordinary man, the Son of God. I don't think Christ redeaming us makes us always his. If we decided to change our minds about our salvation for whatever reason that is on us. Remember, Salvation is to be set free from sin, if you choose to stay in sin then you forfeit salvation. Like i said b4, the experts will deal with the issues you present and I'll add my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halifaxchristian Posted July 25, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 722 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 25, 2005 great question. I'll leave it to the pros and add my 2cents when i can. Redemption I believe Is paying an obligation for something that isn't yours.(i could be wrong) Christ died to redeem us from Satan. When God created man, man was to have dominion over this world. Satan deceived man and thus ownership was transferred to the devil. In the old days, I believe, when a person died, if his land was taken by another person, only a "next of kin" could redeem it for the family. I believe it is illustrated in the story of Ruth and Boaz. That's why Christ became one of us because only a man could redeem mankind, but no ordinary man, the Son of God. I don't think Christ redeaming us makes us always his. If we decided to change our minds about our salvation for whatever reason that is on us. Remember, Salvation is to be set free from sin, if you choose to stay in sin then you forfeit salvation. Like i said b4, the experts will deal with the issues you present and I'll add my two cents. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Remnant Rob, God bless you as you seek an answer to this very important issue. I am persuaded that men are able to come up with very convincing arguements as to why or why someone cannot or can lose their salvation. However, I listen to the Word of God. Hebrews 6 alone proves that eternal life is just that...eternal. Man's wisdom aside, I'll hold to the Word. I pray that you will too. Satan tries to rob us of our peace, love, and devotion by threatening us with accusations..."you've gone too far, Christ has left you, you don't deserve salvation...etc., etc.". God doesn't want us serving Him so that we can "keep" what has been trusted unto us. God wants us serving Him because He is faitful to "keep" what we have given Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnantrob Posted July 25, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/23/1982 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Thanks for your response halifaxchristian. One thing though........I'm no longer seeking an answer to this issue for i am convinced that salvation can be lost. Christ will never give you anymore than you can bear, yet if you choose not to bear it, it was of your choice. I believe there is a spiritual battle of the mind going on today. One of whether you(general) will submit to Christ or another. Romans 6:16 states: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? So If I make it my duty serve christ and then i go back to what i was doing then I no longer have salvation. Hebrews 10:26 says, For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins If we can sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of truth then I have to assume that we still have free will while we are under the influence of the Holy Spirit. If not then we would no longer live For Christ because we love him but because he made us do it despite our will. There will always be the argument of isn't God's will supreme and my answer to that is yes it is. But not everything that happens in this world today is because God wills it to be so. Christ asks us to pray that the father's will be done. If it is already being done, then why make useless prayers? Anywho, God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Hebrews 6 alone proves that eternal life is just that...eternal. you're right. eternal life IS eternal. but while we are here on earth, we have the option whether to accept or reject God's gift.... and His gift is just that... a gift. He does not force it upon us. God doesn't revoke our "free will" after we have become Christians. there are hundreds upon hundreds of scriptural passages which clearly state what happens to those who "once knew the truth, and knowing, turned away"... those who were part of the branches of God's family tree who chose to quit living for God and were cast off BY God. i'll leave it to someone else to post those passages though. i've posted them on these boards at least a dozen times, and i'm just not interested in getting further involved in this debate at this time. what we each believe on that matter really is irrelevant anyway. those of us who believe one can reject their salvation and willingly opt NOT to reject it, will see those of you who are dedicated to Christ and who believe one is stuck with their decision, on the other side of the pearly gates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted July 25, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2005 I was going to type out my reply to Hebrews 6:1-6 but instead ran across a commentary that says it much better than I do: This passage has been interpreted in four ways: (1) that the danger of a Christian losing his salvation is described, a view rejected because of biblical assurances that salvation is a work of God which cannot be reversed; (2) that the warning is against mere profession of faith short of salvation, or tasting but not really partaking of salvation (The New Scofield Reference Bible, p. 1315); (3) that hypothetically if a Christian could lose his salvation, there is no provision for repentance (The Ryrie Study Bible, p. 1736); (4) that a warning is given of the danger of a Christian moving from a position of true faith and life to the extent of becoming disqualified for further service (1 Cor. 9:27) and for inheriting millennial glory. The latter is the interpretation adopted here. The entirety of these verses constitutes a single sentence in Greek as well as in the English of the NIV. The central assertion is: It is impossible for those who have . . . to be brought back to repentance. Following the words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted July 26, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted July 26, 2005 (edited) But the reason in some ways this whole thing is circular is that if you are worried about losing your faith, you couldn't be losing your faith and salvation, by the very fact that you are worried about it, shows the Holy Spirit is working in you. If you really were losing your salvation and faith forever, you wouldn't stop to think or worry about it at all. I do think there are however people who think they are saved but are not, some who take great pride in their "faith", as Christ said many will call me Lord Lord on that day, and I will say I never knew you, and "you will know them by their fruits", and some will "do great wonders in Christ Edited July 26, 2005 by Smalcald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khristeeanos Posted July 26, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 109 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,278 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 29 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 26, 2005 The Mosaic law was never about salvation. It was about Holiness. Salvation was gained by faith in the comming Messiah. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are Jews today still saved by faith in the "comming Messiah?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted July 26, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 26, 2005 The Mosaic law was never about salvation. It was about Holiness. Salvation was gained by faith in the comming Messiah. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Are Jews today still saved by faith in the "comming Messiah?" <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Mosaic covenant had nothing to do with Salvation. The saved by faith in the comming Messiah passed away when the Messiah came. This, however, was not a covenant made with the Jews. Thus God has never broken His covenant and no covenant has ceased to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Swift Fists Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Thanks for starting this thread. I was thinking about asking the very same question. Some regular posters and long time christians whom are saved may tire of this subject. But please spare a thought for those of us whom are newly saved or saved but haven't really served the Lord like we know we should. I believe that I am saved. Thanks to a Lay preacher on the side of the road. He could answer every question I had. Did he answer it? No every question was answered in the Bible. I owe him so much for saving my eternal soul. I believe that I am saved but I sin regularly. I want to be worthy of Jesus' love and I really try. But time and time again I am sinning. So thanks for this thread Swifty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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