Markesmith Posted August 15, 2020 Group: Catholic Followers: 3 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 404 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 15, 2020 20 minutes ago, Nobody said: Does the Bible not say the exact opposite, "that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only"? (James 2:24) How can Scripture be an infallible and sufficient guide to me if I can't be sure that I understand it correctly? Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. not the Bible alone but the Bible and an angel and the Holy Spirit sending an apostle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted August 15, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.54 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 15, 2020 18 minutes ago, Nobody said: Does the Bible not say the exact opposite, "that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only"? (James 2:24) Read that in context. The works were a result of faith and demonstrated that the faith was genuine. Quote How can Scripture be an infallible and sufficient guide to me if I can't be sure that I understand it correctly? Scripture is an infallible and sufficient guide, objectively, whether you can understand it correctly or not. It is the Holy Spirit who opens the meaning of Scripture to us, so I recommend you to pray for wisdom. God can also use godly teachers to help us understand; just remember to test everything and see if it really accords with Scripture or not. Stick to what is simple, to begin with, and gradually build up your knowledge. Scripture never contradicts itself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markesmith Posted August 15, 2020 Group: Catholic Followers: 3 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 404 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 15, 2020 Bible alone contradicts salvation by faith alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markesmith Posted August 16, 2020 Group: Catholic Followers: 3 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 404 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 Now we believe not the Bible alone but the Bible plus context? matt 5 blessed are the merciful they shall receive mercy. Is that faith alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted August 16, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.54 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 16, 2020 12 hours ago, Nobody said: I read the context but didn't see anything that would indicate that works are a result of faith, only that neither faith without works nor works without faith can save us. Both are necessary for salvation. In fact, when I read the Bible I see that a lot more is necessary for salvation. For example, what do we do with Romans 8:24, where Paul says that "we are saved by hope"? Is hope one of these works produced by faith? What about 1 Corinthians 13:2, where Paul says that we can have the kind of faith that can move mountains, but that without charity it will profit us nothing? Is charity also one of these works produced by faith? You clearly don't believe the gospel; but, rather, believe in salvation by works. This could indicate that you need to be saved. Look away from yourself to Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. His accomplished work on the cross is what saves us, by God's grace, through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Hope is faith for the future. Faith for something to happen is not the kind of faith by which God saves us; that is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his finished work, on the cross. Love in action is indeed an example of the kind of work produced through faith in Jesus Christ. Quote So, objectively the guide is infallible and sufficient, but subjectively the guide is neither infallible nor sufficient? That doesn't sound like the kind of guide I'm looking for. The Bible is infallible and sufficient; but we are not. This is why we need the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth; and he uses the Bible to do this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markesmith Posted August 16, 2020 Group: Catholic Followers: 3 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 404 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 3 hours ago, David1701 said: You clearly don't believe the gospel; but, rather, believe in salvation by works. This could indicate that you need to be saved. Look away from yourself to Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. His accomplished work on the cross is what saves us, by God's grace, through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Hope is faith for the future. Faith for something to happen is not the kind of faith by which God saves us; that is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his finished work, on the cross. Love in action is indeed an example of the kind of work produced through faith in Jesus Christ. The Bible is infallible and sufficient; but we are not. This is why we need the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth; and he uses the Bible to do this. Was the Bible alone sufficient in acts 8? 26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert. 27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: 33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. 34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted August 16, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.54 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Markesmith said: Was the Bible alone sufficient in acts 8? 26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert. 27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: 33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. 34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? Sola Scriptura is to do with doctrine and principles of godliness. It does not mean that you can understand everything, without the Holy Spirit. As I said to you a few times, you need to understand the Solas, before you seek to criticise them. You clearly have not taken the trouble to do this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markesmith Posted August 16, 2020 Group: Catholic Followers: 3 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 404 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 Wow that’s amazing! you mean without the Holy Spirit and the apostles! No I don’t spend much time on mere human tradition like the Solas after all the so called reforms of the so called reformation we’re not apostles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted August 16, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.54 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Nobody said: There are so many definitions of Sola Scriptura out there that I think it may be better if you can give us a definition you are happy to work with. At least then we can talk about the same thing. Sola Scriptura: The Bible is the sole, infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markesmith Posted August 17, 2020 Group: Catholic Followers: 3 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 404 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 Sola Scriptura: The Bible is the sole, infallible source of authorityfor Christian faith and practice. where does the Bible say that? where does the Bible say what is and what is not the Bible? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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