Peterlag Posted October 1, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 1, 2020 7 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: I am sorry that I assumed you didn't have a parallel Bible. If you are willing to do this it would be I think a good learning experience if we took a verse which you may believe is corrupt in the King James Version, and compare it with a newer version. I once agreed to that just before the site was shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 1, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 1, 2020 7 hours ago, Don19 said: When Jesus says, 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. (John 14:17) I believe He is referring to Himself. The New Testament teaching is Christ in us the hope of glory. And you will see this numerous times: Christ in us. So, Josheb, this is the difference I'm getting at between "faith in Christ" versus "faith of Christ." Faith in Christ is our initial response to the gospel. Faith of Christ is the reality of our faith in our daily lives, which is through the gift of the Spirit, which Paul says he lives in the flesh. @Josheb You are brilliant Don19. But could this "faith of Christ" be what E.W. Bullinger calls it to be in Philippians 3:9 which is [the faith of Christ = Christ's faith] that we are walking in when we are in the spirit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 1, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 1, 2020 5 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: Whose faith? Walter you did it again. I never saw that in Ephesians. Thank you so much. Yes whose faith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 1, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: You stated: "Faith of Christ is the reality of our faith in our daily lives, " I don't agree with that. Could you share some verses please to support that. It's what I'm after too Walter. Could it be possible to walk in Christ is the same as walking by his faith because it's his belief system that we would then be having fellowship with. We are to have fellowship with him right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Krishnan Posted October 1, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 3 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 55 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/04/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 1, 2020 Jesus's faith is so immense and divine that it appears as if it doesn't exist . It is what held his apostles together and guided them despite the knowledge of his coming demise to reach beyond his death into the future with his teachings; his only apparent momentary weakness being at the crucifixion just before his death . Unfortunately, my faith is heavily calculated, so I am in my consideration, an inchoate, weak but enthusiastic Christian . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted October 1, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,894 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,779 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 1, 2020 7 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: You stated: "Faith of Christ is the reality of our faith in our daily lives, " I don't agree with that. Could you share some verses please to support that. ******* If someone is a Catholic he does not have to agree with that.... He has a duty to live according to the Catholic culture ... The same as if someone is a Lutheran or a Baptist. And he is a member of this particular church and Pastor. Then he needs to live in a accordance with the ordinances of this administration of this culture... To live the way Paul lived in the way he managed his own individual conversation who said...if I am within a Jewish culture I live according to this culture rules...I will walk with them keeping the Sabath.. Say nothing against their sacret customs less they get offended and I provoke them to defend their culture and their holy things in the name of their God as they see it....that moment they do not need to be right, it matters to them that they believe they are right... But if I am away from that culture or I do not live in Jerusalem (the time of Paul)... I will have no regard to keeping the Sabath....or their fasts and their Holy days... I will be in another environment with a different rules... But in my heart I have to be ready...if the Holy Spirit asked me to do something or go some way then to follow...and not arguing with the Holy Spirit that this is my day of rest.... Or I plan something and what the Spirit is asking is not according to my way or the culture I found my self with at the moment... So I need to study the culture of the Baptist even the culture of the local baptist community church...less I offend them by saying something or doing something in my freedom in Jesus Christ which is between me and Jesus and not to try and share it with others unless I am instructed to do so... If one does not celebrate Christmas...needs to be careful not to offend those who do... Because one will be seen as poluted and maybe as an unbeliever...and be treated so by those who do.... Jesus Christ new what he was doing and the reasons why...and we do not need to follow on our own inisitive and call people hippocrates or false prophets or dry ground.... Who game the right to the "Hebrew lawyer", to call some people "dry ground " good only for burning...when the life of those people is hidden with the Lord and not with him... Luther was call names like that and worse than that and many seek to burn him alive in the name of Jesus Christ... Do not call people pew warmers or not be born from above because they do not do what you do.... Do not tell people who believe in Jesus Christ that they need to be born again to go to Heaven... Or tell them they think they believe and are lost...when they believe...and they do not need to prove to anyone that they believe with their actions to someone else satisfaction...no they do not...this is between Jesus and them...and Jesus can see the faith in their heart...when others do not...and demand Christian actions to be convinced... For someone seeking membership in a church group is another matter... between the believers if that community... Who desires good membership representation...good for them to Judge their own... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted October 1, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,894 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,779 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Walter Goraj jr said: It is kind of a mystery. We know that there is nothing we can do to initiate a right relationship with God. In scripture, anyone who truly believes was ultimately chosen by God before the world began. Our faith had nothing to do with that. So then after salvation we have the desire to trust or have faith in Christ. We are also able to "call" upon or appeal to God in prayer. But over all of our ability there is the faith of Christ (which is perfect ) in which we live by. "Our" faith can still waver. I hope I was able to word it properly. ***** Moses gave the Israelites the Law.... and the people call it "the Law of Moses"... Moses asked the people to follow someone else after him in due time...someone more important than him... He would give them something more important, someone God wanted to give the people, something the Law of Moses could not give... Moses gave the Law...and through obedience to the Law the people established themselves in the righteousness of the Law.... This what God required of them to have the righteousness of the Law... **** How about the one Moses talked about who later through the prophets was called the Messiah the Christ of God...what will give the people...what it is greater than the Righteousness of the Law which established the people in favor with their God... It takes time to list the side effects of adherence to the Law... One was the people lived with fear, were established in fear...it had the byproducts of the lost sheep of Israel...people cut of from the righteousness of the Law, some for life, some for a different seasons-duretion of time-some were punish with death...even their children were punished... This is it the Law was built on the fear of punishment... God moved among them, but was at the same time unapproachable... After death they were separated from him... That's the time they found their peace in the Bossom of Abraham... Abraham welcome his offsprings ... ***** Jesus Christ did not give people any Law ...to no one he gave any Law to follow...because to give a Law will have to include the punishment... Jesus while sojourning he said: I have not come to punish...I have come to saved begginng from the lost sheep of Israel...all those who were under punishment...cut off from the righteousness of the Law... Jesus said that time I have not come for those who have the benefit of the righteousness of the Law...but only for those who are cut off from the righteousness of the Law...who were under punishment because of disobedience to the Law... Moses left the people an Inheritance the Law and it's righteousness and the promise for something a lot better by the one yet to come... Jesus Christ who is the one Moses said he will come after him...left us an Inheritance.... He established us in the faith in him...in what he did and who he is.... Moses through the obedience to the Law ....the righteousness of the Law... Jesus through the obedience to God to believe in his Son Jesus Christ for theforgiveness of our sins....the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ...as the righteousness of Jesus Christ is the same as the righteousness of God... So through Jesus Christ having his righteousness by obeying God to believe in him....we have peace with God... Where there is forgiveness of sins...righteousness rains...there is no fear of the punishment to be cut off from Jesus Christ... As long as Jesus is with God we are ok...I said we are ok... We follow Jesus by faith...where he is we are...if he fall from grace we fall from grace.... That's why the fear is gone for all eternity... We are under his righteousness not only hear on earth, but also when we are in Heaven... We are established not in the Law of Moses but we are established in what God gave us to have faith in his Son to believe in Jesus Christ...not Law of doing this or that... Only to believe that he died for the forgiveness of our sins....having faith in Jesus Christ....no works...from faith to faith... This is God's new commandment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don19 Posted October 1, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 578 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 255 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/28/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted October 1, 2020 7 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: You stated: "Faith of Christ is the reality of our faith in our daily lives, " I don't agree with that. Could you share some verses please to support that. I guess I'd start with Gal 2:20, 3:11, 3:27; Col 2:11-12, 3:1-3; Rom 1:17, 6:3-6; Heb 10:38. All these Pauline passages talking about baptism are talking about Holy Spirit baptism (John 1:33). But water immersion is surely a picture of it. That is, we are dead and raised with Christ and walk in newness of life. That newness of live is not created by our self-effort, but it's because we've been placed into Christ. The Spirit is life because of righteousness 5 hours ago, Peterlag said: You are brilliant Don19. But could this "faith of Christ" be what E.W. Bullinger calls it to be in Philippians 3:9 which is [the faith of Christ = Christ's faith] that we are walking in when we are in the spirit? I'm sorry, but I have not observed that you believe the same as I, overall with respect to what I've seen of your posting history. I'm afraid there may be a misunderstanding, as I was surprised to see your affirmations of my posts. We may be using the same kind of phraseology but possibly with very different meanings. Or maybe I'm not quite sure where you stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 2, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 14 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: It is kind of a mystery. We know that there is nothing we can do to initiate a right relationship with God. In scripture, anyone who truly believes was ultimately chosen by God before the world began. Our faith had nothing to do with that. So then after salvation we have the desire to trust or have faith in Christ. We are also able to "call" upon or appeal to God in prayer. But over all of our ability there is the faith of Christ (which is perfect ) in which we live by. "Our" faith can still waver. I hope I was able to word it properly. Many churches teach God called certain people because the New Testament has places where it talks about those who God called. I think God called everyone and only certain people answered the call. In Ephesians 1:4, it says God chose us in Christ beforehand... and in Revelation 17:8, it says certain names have been written in a book from the foundation of the world. It's the group, the body of Christ that is foreordained from the foundation of the world, and not specific individuals selected by God for salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 2, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 And trust is probably a better translation than faith In the New Testament “faith” is most often translated from the Greek noun pistis (#4102 πίστις), which like many other Greek words has several meanings including “trust” Romans 3:38, 1 Corintians 15:14; “faithfulness and reliability” (Proverbs 12:22, Matthew 23:23, Romans 3:3, Galatians 5:22; and “proof and pledge” (Acts 17:31). Also in the New Testament and later Christian writings, pistis was used as a designation for the entire scope of religious practices and beliefs of the followers of Jesus, as in “the Christian Faith” (Galatians 1:23). As it was used in the everyday Greek-speaking world, “faithfulness” and “trust” were both very common meanings of pistis. However, in the New Testament, pistis means “trust” much more than it does “faithfulness” and when pistis is translated “faith” in phrases like “faith in God” or “faith in Christ” or “have faith” it means “trust” or “confidence” or “assurance.” The early Christians would have readily perceived the meaning of pistis as “trust” or “confidence” and that meaning can be easily confirmed by checking any good biblical lexicon or Bible dictionary. For example, pistis has been defined as: “With the predominant idea of trust (or confidence)” (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament). “Firm persuasion, a conviction based upon hearing” (Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words). “Firm persuasion” (A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament by E.W. Bullinger). “State of believing on the basis of the reliability of the one trusted; trust, confidence” (A Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, W. Arndt and Wilber Gingrich, 2000; usually abbreviated “BDAG”). “It is the attitude of complete trust in Christ...” (The New Bible Dictionary). “In the New Testament, ‘faith’ is used in a number of ways, but primarily with the meaning ‘trust’ or ‘confidence’ in God” (Hollman Bible Dictionary). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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