Peterlag Posted September 29, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 29, 2020 9 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: If someone has already asked this, forgive me, but I am wondering, are people suggesting that the faith of Jesus Christ, means the same things Jesus believed? Are the suggesting that one need do have the faith equivalent in measure that Jesus had? Could not the phrase "faith of Jesus Christ" just mean nothing other than faith ABOUT Jesus Christ? As a summary, without reviewing the thread, can someone succinctly state what is being discussed here, what is the issue that takes 26 pages to discuss a tiny word "of" is English, the New Testament was written in Greek. Some links below: Gal 3:22 faith FROM Jesus Christ Gal 2:16 faith FROM Jesus Christ Rev 14:12 faith OF Jesus Christ Rom 3:22 faith FROM Jesus Christ Rom 3:26 faith OF Jesus Christ Phil 3:9 faith FROM Christ 1 Tim 1:14 faith IN Jesus Christ 1 Tim 3:13 faith IN Christ Jesus 2 Tim 1:13 faith IN Christ Jesus 2 Tim 3:15 faith IN Christ Jesus I see a lot of discussion about the proposition, but isn't the topic FAITH, not in, of, about, over, under, around and through? Look at Galatians 2:20. Is it... I live by the faith of the Son of God, (His faith) [KJV] Or I live by faith in the Son of God, (Your faith) [NIV] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted September 29, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 29, 2020 (edited) I have an awful amount of respect for E.W. Bullinger's Companion Bible. I found a footnote there for Philippians 3:9 that said... the faith of Christ = Christ's faith Edited September 29, 2020 by Peterlag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankIeCip Posted September 29, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 757 Content Per Day: 0.57 Reputation: 1,119 Days Won: 2 Joined: 09/25/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/08/1978 Share Posted September 29, 2020 Peter there you go. It is the faith of Christ which saves and keeps us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don19 Posted September 29, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 578 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 255 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/28/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted September 29, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Josheb said: And no one this side of the grave can have such faith exactly as Jesus had it because Jesus is unique among men because he is divine; fully-God AND fully (sinless) man. I think this is wrong. We are as Christ in this world (1 John 4:17). Our sins cannot separate us from God, so the mention of sin is irrelevant. Sinless perfection is not in view as it concerns the faith of Christ - but rather assurance. The assurance with which Jesus said He could pray and be given more than twelve legions of angels from the Father. Peter says that by His divine power, through the promises given to us, we are partakers of the divine nature. That is, we are in an unbreakable and eternally secure love relationship with God (God is love), the reality of which is also witnessed to us by the Holy Spirit. All the examples of Hebrews 11 had "faith in" God. None of them had the faith of Christ. Paul says he is crucified with Christ. Indeed, as is made plain from verses 39-40, that better thing -- the promise -- is reserved for the New Testament church. The New Testament teaching is Christ in us, the hope of glory. Edited September 29, 2020 by Don19 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted September 30, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: So I got a chance to look at Acts 3:16 in the Greek new testament: " and by faith in His name this man whom ye behold and know His name made strong...." It looks like we can exercise our faith or have faith IN Christ when most assuredly it is His name and the "faith which is by Him" that heals the man. It's the second part of the verse that I'm interested in... "the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all." And this is huge... a real big deal because I want to know how the guy got healed. Was it his believing in Jesus that did it? Because if that's it. Then everybody can be healed right now if they just believe in Jesus. Or was it the faith of Jesus Christ that brought about the healing? Edited September 30, 2020 by Peterlag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted September 30, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,449 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,530 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) On 9/3/2020 at 1:47 PM, Peterlag said: Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: Your post is a bit unclear in the way you use phrases. Still need to read it over a couple of time to get a further grasp of it, but in the mean time just want to address the following. The scripture verses you quote from what I am understanding does not show that Jesus is exhibiting faith, on the contrary it is showing the believer confidence on his faith in Jesus Christ. This is not to take away from the entire article, but my initial reading of the verses you posted which seems to be a bit misinterpreted. I could be wrong, so please enlighten me. Here I quote the equivalent of Romans 3:22 with the amplified version that states what I think. Romans 3 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC) 22 Namely, the righteousness of God which comes by believing withpersonal trust and confident reliance on Jesus Christ (the Messiah). [And it is meant] for all who believe. For there is no distinction, Edit.... I did not read through the entire thread, but as I skim through, I see others have asked the same line of question. The issue I see also is the context of the verses as you have to read the preceding and following verses to better understand the structure of the verse. Edited September 30, 2020 by warrior12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted September 30, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, warrior12 said: Your post is a bit unclear in the way you use phrases. Still need to read it over a couple of time to get a further grasp of it, but in the mean time just want to address the following. The scripture verses you quote from what I am understanding does not show that Jesus is exhibiting faith, on the contrary it is showing the believer confidence on his faith in Jesus Christ. This is not to take away from the entire article, but my initial reading of the verses you posted which seems to be a bit misinterpreted. I could be wrong, so please enlighten me. Here I quote the equivalent of Romans 3:22 with the amplified version that states what I think. Romans 3 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC) 22 Namely, the righteousness of God which comes by believing withpersonal trust and confident reliance on Jesus Christ (the Messiah). [And it is meant] for all who believe. For there is no distinction, Here's the... Aramaic Bible in Plain English But the righteousness of God is by the faith of Yeshua The Messiah unto every person, also upon every person who believes in him, for there is no distinction, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted September 30, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,449 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,530 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted September 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Peterlag said: Here's the... Aramaic Bible in Plain English But the righteousness of God is by the faith of Yeshua The Messiah unto every person, also upon every person who believes in him, for there is no distinction, So again the Amplified version IMO , further simplifies the verse of the version above you quoted. Further, if we look at the following verses of the same chapter [ using the kjv] we can see clearly the explanation of the verse 22. God righteousness is explained in verse 25. see Romans 3 King James Version (KJV) 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted September 30, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,885 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,774 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 30, 2020 3 hours ago, Peterlag said: Here's the... Aramaic Bible in Plain English But the righteousness of God is by the faith of Yeshua The Messiah unto every person, also upon every person who believes in him, for there is no distinction, This was said after the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross... Speaking of the righteousness of God ... This is telling us that no one had the righteousness of God before Jesus Christ death on the Cross... There is a distinction of righteousness... Looking into the righteousness of the first man to die... Abel die in righteousness, in his own individual righteousness... He was the offspring of Adam... He inherited something from Adam by birth... He was born a righteous person and he lived as a righteous person and with faith in God that God rewards righteousness and Judge unrighteousness... He had knowledge to what happened to his father and he had learned from it... Abel lived in a different world than the people in subquence generations.. But never the less when he died suddenly by the hand of his brother he died as a pure man and in his own individual righteousness and with faith in God the Creator... (Take notice when I emphasize " faith in God the Creator ")... At the time of his death God the Creator mourned for Abel... He mourned the way we mourned when someone dies...because he is not longer with us... He may have mourned also because he cannot do anything about that.. He accepted that he cannot be with Abel after his death... That death separated them... At that time he said "the revenge is mine".. But yet he put a protection on Cain who murder Abel his brother... Earlier he had said that the seed of the woman will take revenge on the Devil and will crush or put an end to the Devil's authority to take man after his death by DEFAULT... The Creator said: the revenge is mine but Cain was not in his mind...on his mind was the one who had the authority to take Abel from him who had died pure... But he knew that he had said that the seed of the woman will bring an end to the Devil's authority over mankind at death time... But he still said THE REVENGE IS MINE... and when he had said that he still did not do anything at that time... He knew that he was ordained to be the seed of the woman....and that he had to die first by the hand of his brothers...his own people, his own Priests and be taken by the Devil to the place of the dead for that was the destiny of every man till his resurrection till the authority of the devil over mankind by DEFAULT came to the end... From that time on we have the death Inheritance for those who do not believe in Jesus Christ...the place of the dead, eternal separation...not like before the death of Jesus Christ when no one had yet be judge for his eternal destination... That was given to Jesus right after his death and was implemented at the time of his resurrection ... With the Inheritance of Life the Heavenly one... That time the world past was Judge...those who did not believe in him remained in the place of the dead... The rest Jesus Christ showed them to Peter that they were with him at the vision of the great sheet that came down from heaven those who had believe in him during those three days Jesus had preach faith in him for the forgiveness of sins in his name...just before Peter's mission to Cornelius household.... Jesus established the way to be with him and with the Heavenly Father by faith in him... The faith in Jesus Christ is the way to God... Nothing before that could do it...not self righteousness with faith in God and not the righteousness of the Law... Those in Hebrews together with anyone else who believe in Jesus Christ when they met him in the place of the dead they were saved that time...having the forgiveness of sins in the name of Jesus Christ... Abel did not need forgiveness of sins...he died pure....yet he was seperated at death from God because he did not have of his Life...because not one could have or be partaker of God's Life till after the time Jesus Christ died... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don19 Posted September 30, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 578 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 255 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/28/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted September 30, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: You stated :"All the examples of Hebrews 11 had "faith in" God. None of them had the faith of Christ. " The KJV In Heb. 11 is worded " by faith"( in several instances "through faith ") as in " By grace are ye saved through faith ...."(Eph. 2:8). Sounds to me like "by" or "through" Christ. He is faithful and true. Look at v.13: "These all died in faith (Christ)." No one received the promise before Christ; the very next clause in v.13 even says they didn't receive the promises. That is, they had no assurance of remission of sins and eternal life. When Christ regenerates His people, He gives us the Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13-14). Paul says he is crucified with Christ. Just as Jesus cried out, "it is finished" so is it for us when the Spirit seals us. We are to walk in Christ just as we received Him (Col 2:6), so this is the daily reality of our faith if we're in Christ. God has raised us up together and made us to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Eph 2:6). It's not something any Old Testament saint ever enjoyed. Jesus said John the Baptist was the greatest of them, but even the least one in His kingdom is greater than John (Matthew 11:11). Edited September 30, 2020 by Don19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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