David1701 Posted October 10, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.48 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Peterlag said: Are you telling me that we don't have to seek the Lord because He will save whoever he wants to save? <sigh> No, that is not what I'm saying. God will save whomever he wants to save, and he uses means to do it. One of the means he uses is to cause people to seek him. Ps. 65:4 (KJV) Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple. Ez. 36:26,27 (KJV) 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Acts 16:14 (KJV) And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted October 10, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.48 Reputation: 3,524 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Peterlag said: I disagree with you. I think it's faith of Jesus Christ and not faith in Christ. Perhaps you would prefer the wording "believing on the the Lord Jesus Christ"? It means the same thing as believing in him. Phil. 1:29 (KJV) For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; John 7:31 (KJV) And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done? John 7:38 (KJV) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. John 7:39 (KJV) (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 8:30-32 (KJV) 30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 9:35-38 (KJV) 35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? 37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. John 20:31 (KJV) But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. Acts 8:36,37 (KJV) 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Acts 10:42-44 (KJV) 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. etc, etc, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Walter Goraj jr said: You stated : "You have selectively edited the passage the John 6:35-40 passage to mean something it does not say. John 6:40 is the key." John 6:40 (KJV): "...That every one which seeth ( #2334) the Son, and believe on Him, may have everlasting life..." Strongs #2334 : discern (literally figuratively experience or intensively acknowledge): behold John 17: 24 (KJV): "Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold (#2334) my glory...." Who may behold God's glory? And who can acknowledge or "see" Christ and believe? All who were chosen by God before the world began. Only those people can " truly" believe, repent and obey. Yes, Jn 6:40 is the key. I suggest the KJV. It is a more consistent translation. May does not mean will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 11, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 11, 2020 6 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: Obviously God knows the future otherwise prophesy would not exist. Jeremiah 1:5 - “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” Psalm 139:13-16 - For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; read more. Because He knew what He had planned to make does not mean He knew the man before he was born. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 11, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 11, 2020 5 hours ago, David1701 said: <sigh> No, that is not what I'm saying. God will save whomever he wants to save, and he uses means to do it. One of the means he uses is to cause people to seek him. Ps. 65:4 (KJV) Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple. Ez. 36:26,27 (KJV) 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Acts 16:14 (KJV) And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. I think God called everyone and only certain people answered the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 11, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 11, 2020 5 hours ago, David1701 said: Perhaps you would prefer the wording "believing on the the Lord Jesus Christ"? It means the same thing as believing in him. Phil. 1:29 (KJV) For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; John 7:31 (KJV) And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done? John 7:38 (KJV) He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. John 7:39 (KJV) (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 8:30-32 (KJV) 30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 9:35-38 (KJV) 35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? 37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. 38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. John 20:31 (KJV) But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. Acts 8:36,37 (KJV) 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Acts 10:42-44 (KJV) 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. etc, etc, etc... I don't know how to respond to 21 different verses at the same time. But I will if you can give them to me one at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 11, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 11, 2020 4 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: To seek or call upon the Lord is something that a person who is already saved does. No one seeks after God (Romans 3:11) But I always encourage people to ask for or pray for God to save them in His mercy. I am very careful with words because our Heavenly Father is. Romans 3:11 is referring to the unbeliever who cannot understand God since they have no spirit. I see your point. I speak for myself when I was a young man I did not want to miss out on heaven if there was such a thing. So I wanted to learn about God to find out. Some say He called me. I think He called everyone and people like me answered that call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 11, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 11, 2020 We have been taught things cannot be changed because everything in the universe is already set. If this is true, then why have a genuine dialogue of prayer with God if things cannot be changed since everything in the universe is already set? I believe the answer is that everything in the universe is not already set. And this is why God can and does enter into deep personal relationships of love with those who have indeed been called in Christ Jesus. If what God has foreseen is the entire human history at once, then the difficulty is to somehow allow for God's intervention into that history. This raises a serious problem. Does simple foreknowledge imply that God knows in advance His own decisions and actions? If God possesses foreknowledge of His own actions, then the problem is to explain how the foreknowledge can be the basis for the actions when it already includes the actions. Would it then be impossible that God should use foreknowledge derived from the actual occurrence of future events to determine His own prior actions in the governance of the world? Such a God would then know what He is going to do before deciding what to do. Thus, He would be unable to plan, anticipate, or decide. He would simply know. This seems to call the divine freedom into question, making God a prisoner of His own ability to know what's going on everywhere in the universe at every moment. And if God sees history "all at once" and His actions were not foreseen, then God never foresees any prophets making predictions given by Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted October 11, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,948 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,787 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2020 11 hours ago, Peterlag said: Are telling me we don't have to seek the Lord because He will save whoever he wants to save? If this is truth, how can he Judge them...and condemned them to eternal lost for something he has done... That's why the scriptures say that God desires everyone to be saved...if by saved both of us are talking about the same thing to be saved from Hell... And then what when someone is saved from Hell? What is saved from Hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 11, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 11, 2020 24 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: If this is truth, how can he Judge them...and condemned them to eternal lost for something he has done... That's why the scriptures say that God desires everyone to be saved...if by saved both of us are talking about the same thing to be saved from Hell... And then what when someone is saved from Hell? What is saved from Hell? Looking at your last post makes me think we agree. I believe Christianity is more about a personal God who gets involved with His creation and not about an idea or principle. For God to say yes to creating this particular world means God had to say no (we think) to other possibilities. And so putting all this together seems to suggest we have a Bible that literally portrays God as a personal agent, which implies a shared context for both God and humans. This is really a big deal because now I know I also have choices on how and how deep I interact with Him. Jeremiah repeatedly speaks of the conditional "if" in connection to both the clay (Israel) and the Potter (God). If Israel repents, then God will relent. This type of relationship God offers His people is not one of control and domination, but rather one of an awesome love and vulnerability. This kind of a relationship is not one of domination or manipulation, but of participation and cooperation wherein we become co-laborers with God. It did not have to be this way. It's so only because God wanted a reciprocal relationship of love and elected to make us an important element in such a relationship. And this is why I am suggesting that God has established personal relationships whereby He can have fellowship with us and not that of manipulative or contractual relations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts