Truth, Tried and True!

[WordSword]

In our relationship with the first Adam we had no freedom at all, the members of the old Adam being under obligation to furnish personal righteousness before God, as moral beings responsible to Him (in doing all he was told to do, e.g. “dress and keep” the Garden – Gen 2:15; avoid the Tree of knowledge of good and evil – v 16, 17; naming all the creatures – v 19, etc.—NC). But our position as believers is declared by Paul to have been perfectly secured in the risen Lord Jesus Christ; our responsibility in the fallen Adam and in connection with him having been met and discharged in our Federal Head, the Lord Jesus, who became sin for us at the Cross (2Co 5:21), “that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” (not literally becoming sin but rather made out to be sin, by imputation, i.e. sin or “iniquity laid on Him”- Isa 53:6 - and not in Him, for deity cannot become sin—NC).

To declare, therefore, that new creatures in Christ Jesus are under the law, either for salvation, or as a rule for Christian living is like unto prescribing rules to an apple tree. Simply seek to have the conditions of growth fulfilled and it will then bear fruit. So a human soul in order to “bear fruit unto God” (Rom 7:4), must live in that truth that sets it free (the tree doesn’t need rules to show it’s an apple tree, just application of what causes it to show what it is, e.g. dirt, water and sunlight, etc.—NC).

The Christian has been born from above and was never meant to be in any other state than the freedom of heaven, in his life and service. This is shown by the words “even so” or “likewise” in Romans 6:11. We are told in verse 10 that Christ having been made sin died unto sin “once for all” (Heb 10:10), but “the life He liveth, He liveth into God” (Rom 6:10). For that reason, since we are in Christ Jesus, having died with Him, we are to live as risen beings who died with Him; being now ourselves “alive unto God” in Him (Rom 6:11). The word “likewise” here (v 11) shows that “even as He is, so are we in this world” (1Jo 4:17). Presently He is not under law (as He was before His resurrection—NC), yet He delights in the will of the Father in the very spirit and essence of it, as His inner and absolute pleasure.

Pauls’ blessed doctrine that those who are in Christ Jesus are dead to the law and discharged therefrom (concerning the Jewish Christians—NC), is absolutely necessary to those who would “walk in the Spirit” and make progress in their spiritual growth. To be filled with the Spirit at one time, does not prove that we will be walking in the Spirit at a later time (we live in the Spirit, but we are taught the rest of our lives to walk in Him - Gal 5:25—NC). For example, Peter was filled with the Spirit on the day of Pentecost; but later, at Antioch, we find him “walking not uprightly according to the Gospel (Gal 2:14 – believers are always “after the Spirit” but none are always in step with Him, due the old man – Rom 8:5).

No blessing can take the place of the truth. “Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.” So, our Lord’s promise is, “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.” If we have been taught to believe what is contrary to the written Word of God, although we may have blessings now and then, we cannot become established (“be conformed” in our walk – Rom 8:28—NC) in the risen Lord Jesus (Eph 4:15) until we see and receive the truth.

How can the Holy Spirit lead the saints of God except He leads them into truth? He is “the Spirit of truth!” To teach believers that they are under the law as a rule of life is to teach what is contrary to the Word of God (Gal 5:18); for the Spirit of God declares unto us in Romans 6 and 7, that we have died to the law that made such demands on us (e.g. perfect obedience, a non-expected impossibility—NC), that we could do nothing but sin, even in seeking to keep it! So that the Spirit saith, “Sin shall not have dominion over you, for ye are not under the law but under grace.”

We had to be discharged from the law so that we could serve the Father in the true spirit of service, which is always liberty and gladness (instead of fear of judgement—NC). The same blessed Spirit of God has distinctly written to us, that “we were made dead to the law by the body of Christ” (Rom 7:4; Heb 10:10); that our death with Him was a fact, and that we who are now in Him share that death, He being our Federal Head, “our Life” (Col 3:4), instead of Adam the first (1Co 15:45); because we, having died with the Lord Jesus, have been positioned before the Father with Him.

 

—Wm R Newell (1868-1956)

[JTC]

I hate to have to tell you WordSword, but I totally disagree with the quote you posted. I say the Christian life is living a life as similar to the way Jesus lived as possible. This will change as we grow and it will vary from person to person. Is this guy Wm R Newell tthe 1st person who started this false doctrine that we don't have to do anything as Christians? I wonder.

Let me tell you right  now I'm not going to debate this with you. Someone else might but not me. I settled this issue in my mind, heart and soul many years ago.

Do realize that 2000 yrs ago a person's words meant something. Remember that 2000 yrs ago you might be killed because of what you said. There are places where this may still be true but it isn't in America. Over here words mean very little, over here what matters is a person's behavior. God knew this would happen. James said faith without good behaviors means nothing, and Jesus Himself told the people that if your brother needs something that you can give him but you do not then what good is it for you to say you care. Obviously no good at all. A person's actions have always been important to God. But it's also true that 2000 yrs ago a person's words counted for more than they do today in America. Nowadays if you say you're a Christian but your behavior doesn't prove it then I say you have a problem.

 

[WordSword]

1 hour ago, JTC said:

 I say the Christian life is living a life as similar to the way Jesus lived as possible.

Hi, and though we disagree I'm thankful for your reply! During Jesus' life on earth He lived under the Law, and is why He taught the Law, while teaching the coming "Everlasting Covenant" (Heb 13:20), which is a new and final covenant. But in all His teachings, He centered on obeying the Father and so, He always made the Father the primary subject after becoming one with the Lore Jesus.

His teachings about the new covenant were limited because He wanted to teach us through the Apostles, esp. Paul, whom He used to reveal doctrines of understanding that were not expounded upon by others. Thus if we cling to these teachings concerning the new covenant we are remaining in His teachings and ways.

 

[JTC]

3 hours ago, WordSword said:

He taught the Law,

Yes and no. Of course Jesus had to teach the law, to a certain extent, because He was usually talking to Jews. But in Jesus day the Law meant the old mosaic laws and Jesus wasn't really big on that. Jesus emphasized treating everyone with love, compassion, generosity and forgiveness. These things are not specifically related to the mosaic law.

But my point is we are supposed to live our lives in ways that copy the ways Jesus lived. The people who say we don't have to live Christ-like soon feel they hate the people who disagree with them, and some even feel justified in being violent. I know most of the world will behave like this but don't fool yourself into believing this is being a Christian, it isn't. I don't believe any of these kind of people will be in heaven regardless of what they believe. This is my point. Both Jesus and the apostles told the people that how they behaved was very important. Only much later on did men come along that started saying you could behave as you pleased if you believed the right things and said the right words. This is false. But it's not the old mosaic law that we have to live by. It's the love, kindness, compassion, and acceptance of Jesus we have to copy.

   WordSword, I don't know if you are truly a person who doesn't know what the truth is or if you are just looking for someone to argue with? You may be a young person who's truly confused? I always knew our behavior matters to God but when I was first saved and young, the people who say what Wm R Newell say had me confused for many years. I'm not confused anymore and I'll help someone who needs help understanding the truth but I won't debate these issues for sport.

I'll tell you one more important thing. The more a person knows the more God expects from you. I know that what I do matters so I know God will hold me accountable for what I tell others as well as how I behave.

It's my dinner time.

May God guide you.

[steve morrow]

THEIR  HEART  IS  FAR  FROM  ME 

ISAIAH 29:13  wherefore  THE  LORD  said forasmuch as this people draw near  ME  with their mouth and with their lips do honor  ME  but have removed their heart far from  ME  and their fear toward  ME  is taught by the precept of men 

 

PROVERBS 22:20  HAVE  NOT  --I--  WRITTEN  TO  THEE  EXCELLENT  THINGS  IN  COUNSELS  AND  KNOWLEDGE

--22:21-- THAT  I  MIGHT  MAKE  THEE  KNOW  THE  CERTAINTY  OF  THE  WORDS  OF  TRUTH  THAT  THOU  MIGHTEST  ANSWER  THE  WORDS  OF  TRUTH  TO  THEM  THAT  SEND  UNTO  THEE 

 

PROVERBS 8:6  hear for I will speak of excellent things and the opening of  MY  LIPS  shall be right things 

--8:7--  for  MY  MOUTH  shall speak truth and wickedness is an abomination to  MY  lips 

--8:8-- ALL -- the words of  --MY  MOUTH-- are in righteousness there is nothing froward or perverse in them 

1 JOHN 1:9  if we confess our sins  HE  is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us for all unrighteousness 

 

ACTS 19:19  MANY  OF  THEM  ALSO  WHICH  USED  CURIOUS  ARTS  BROUGHT  THEIR  BOOKS  TOGETHER  AND  BURNED  THEM  BEFORE  ALL  MEN  AND  THEY  COUNTED  THE  PRICE  OF  THEM  AND  FOUND  IT  FIFTY  THOUSAND  PIECES  OF  SILVER

--19:20-- SO  MIGHTILY  GREW  THE  WORD  OF  GOD  AND  PREVAILED 

 

ACTS 17:11  these were more noble than those in thessalonica in that they received the word with all readiness of mind ---AND  SEARCHED  THE  SCRIPTURES--- daily whether those things were so 

 

1 CORINTHIANS 14:37  IF  ANY  MAN  THINK  HIMSELF  TO  BE  A  PROPHET  OR  SPIRITUAL  LET  HIM  ACKNOWLEDGE  THAT  THE  THINGS  I  WRITE  UNTO  YOU  ARE  THE  COMMANDMENTS  OF  THE  LORD 

ROMANS 15:18  FOR  I  WILL  NOT  DARE  TO  SPEAK  OF  ANY  OF  THOSE  THINGS  WHICH  CHRIST  HATH  NOT  WROUGHT  BY  ME  TO  MAKE  THE  GENTILES  OBEDIENT  BY  WORD  AND  DEED

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST  

[WordSword]

11 hours ago, JTC said:

Yes and no. Of course Jesus had to teach the law, to a certain extent, because He was usually talking to Jews. But in Jesus day the Law meant the old mosaic laws and Jesus wasn't really big on that.

I think His stressing the Law to the Jews was showing them the importance of obedience to God's Word, and that would carry over to equal importance to obedience to the new covenant.

[JTC]

1 hour ago, WordSword said:

that would carry over to equal importance to obedience to the new covenant.

The key word in what you said is obedience. So here is my question for you. If you understand that obedience is important, whether it be the New Covenant or the Old Covenant, then why do you like the quote you used? I mean look at the first line, "The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like", in view of our conversation do you really think this is true?

I don't know who first started that idea but it's false and always has been false. In fact the opposite is the truth, the Christian life is our living a life like Christ and our trying to be Christ like. That's exactly what it is.

As for the rest of that quote, this part can be dangerous, "it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ." If this is taken literally it can be used to justify living as unrighteously as you please. Do you get it? The person tells himself he's not responsible for his own life anyway because his life is nothing more than Christ living HIS life through that person. (I understand why you can theoretically think about it this way, but in reality this is not true) This is the kind of thinking that can lead to the idea that all people will be saved and no one will go to hell. I mean if our lives are Jesus Christ reliving His life is Christ going to Hell, can you see how such a question is absurd?

  So how about you doing an old man a favor and take that quote off your signature. It really will lead people who don't know better the wrong way.

[WordSword]

1 hour ago, JTC said:

The key word in what you said is obedience. So here is my question for you. If you understand that obedience is important, whether it be the New Covenant or the Old Covenant, then why do you like the quote you used? I mean look at the first line, "The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like", in view of our conversation do you really think this is true?

I thought you meant quotes from the writer, William Newell. The quote you are referencing in my signature at the bottom of all my posts is from Miles Stanford, and it means that believers do not live the life of Christ because it's Christ Himself--through the Spirit, living His own life in and through us, like a hand in a glove; Jesus being the hand and we the glove.

One can live like another but that is merely mimicking by our own power. One cannot live the life for another, for each has their own life to live. So, the difference with the life of the Lord Jesus, is that the Holy Spirit uses His life in and through us; and this will manifest itself by what is seen in our lifestyle (walk). It's not the life of the Spirit but the power of the Spirit, using the life of the Lord Jesus, because He "is our Life" (Col 3:4).