Guest kingdombrat Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Going back to the idea of Evolution. If humanity arrived from the process of Evolution, wouldn't those be without [SIN}? If Adam was [Created] by God, a special Creation because from Adam would eventually lead to the Messiah, once he fell he caused a sin chain reaction to take place in humanity from that point. But if we have 2 [origins] to human life, Creation and Evolution, and through Creation it eventually led to a [sinful nature], are those humans [if Evolution is factual] free from sin because they are not from the Creation point of Adam? The Bible claims [ALL] have sinned and fell short...((but isn't "ALL" meaning ALL that was from Adam?))...Does [SIN] actually disprove Evolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted December 11, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,082 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 974 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2020 5 hours ago, kingdombrat said: Going back to the idea of Evolution. If humanity arrived from the process of Evolution, wouldn't those be without [SIN}? No. Why would they? 5 hours ago, kingdombrat said: f Adam was [Created] by God, a special Creation because from Adam would eventually lead to the Messiah, once he fell he caused a sin chain reaction to take place in humanity from that point. But if we have 2 [origins] to human life, Creation and Evolution, That's one origin. Evolution is just the way God created some things. He didn't make everything in the same way. 5 hours ago, kingdombrat said: Creation it eventually led to a [sinful nature], are those humans [if Evolution is factual] free from sin because they are not from the Creation point of Adam? Ah, I see what you're talking about. Good question. The thing is, evolutionary theory doesn't in any way rule out two original ancestors who disobeyed God and fell from grace. 5 hours ago, kingdombrat said: The Bible claims [ALL] have sinned and fell short...((but isn't "ALL" meaning ALL that was from Adam?))...Does [SIN] actually disprove Evolution? No. It's entirely consistent with evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kingdombrat Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 5 hours ago, The Barbarian said: No. Why would they? That's one origin. Evolution is just the way God created some things. He didn't make everything in the same way. Ah, I see what you're talking about. Good question. The thing is, evolutionary theory doesn't in any way rule out two original ancestors who disobeyed God and fell from grace. No. It's entirely consistent with evolution. So in your viewpoint, do you see Adam as being the first human to fully evolve into what we clarify as homo-sapien? The first to walk upright? Or, do you see Adam as the first to have [awareness] and this is where he was able to use logic and sin against God within the "Garden?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted December 11, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,082 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 974 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2020 7 hours ago, kingdombrat said: So in your viewpoint, do you see Adam as being the first human to fully evolve into what we clarify as homo-sapien? I'm saying that biology isn't what makes us children of God. Adam and Eve were the first two humans who were given living souls directly by God. We are all descended from them. 7 hours ago, kingdombrat said: Or, do you see Adam as the first to have [awareness] and this is where he was able to use logic and sin against God within the "Garden?" Perhaps. Other animals are innocent; they can't sin. But we can. That's the part that always intrigues me. The act that makes us like God is an act of rebellion against Him. After Adam and Eve disobey God and eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil: Gen. 3:22 And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever. Consider God in the garden with Adam. "The garden is for you to enjoy, Adam. Live here, eat the fruits of the garden, except the fruit on that tree. No, not that one, that tree over there. If you eat the fruit of that tree, something terrible will happen." Now anyone with any understanding of human nature would know what was going to happen next. No one can tell me that God didn't realize what would happen. So there we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Posted December 11, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted December 11, 2020 God told Moses what to write as His account of the origin of the universe and our world. He never mentioned evolution. He said that He created the universe by speaking it into being over six 24 hour days. I believe what God says rather than what human "experts" have theorised. God's Word is truth and truth is stronger than theory and conjecture. "Let God be true and every man [by comparison] be a liar" (Romans 3:4). On this basis, Genesis 1 is truth, and evolution is a lie. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted December 12, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,082 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 974 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 12, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Paul James said: God told Moses what to write as His account of the origin of the universe and our world. He never mentioned evolution. He never mentioned DNA or cell division or gametes, either. I don't see a point. 4 hours ago, Paul James said: He said that He created the universe by speaking it into being over six 24 hour days. Actually, no. No mention of 24 hour days in the creation story. 4 hours ago, Paul James said: I believe what God says rather than what human "experts" have theorised. "Experts" have theorized 24 hour days, mornings and evenings with no sun to have them, and so on. But since all of the various Christian "experts" can't seem to agree, I'm thinking that most or all of them are inserting their own ideas into scripture. Each of them believes that he is saying "what God says", and argues that the others are wrong. I'm thinking that God is not the author of confusion, and that what He really is telling us is so simple that anyone could get it. 4 hours ago, Paul James said: On this basis, Genesis 1 is truth, and evolution is a lie. Genesis is truth, and of course evolution being directly observed, is truth as well. It's just one way that God creates things in this world. I think you've confused changes in allele frequency (evolution) with common descent (a consequence of evolution). Edited December 12, 2020 by The Barbarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Posted December 12, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted December 12, 2020 2 hours ago, The Barbarian said: He never mentioned DNA or cell division or gametes, either. I don't see a point. Actually, no. No mention of 24 hour days in the creation story. "Experts" have theorized 24 hour days, mornings and evenings with no sun to have them, and so on. But since all of the various Christian "experts" can't seem to agree, I'm thinking that most or all of them are inserting their own ideas into scripture. Each of them believes that he is saying "what God says", and argues that the others are wrong. I'm thinking that God is not the author of confusion, and that what He really is telling us is so simple that anyone could get it. Genesis is truth, and of course evolution being directly observed, is truth as well. It's just one way that God creates things in this world. I think you've confused changes in allele frequency (evolution) with common descent (a consequence of evolution). The reason why you can't see that Genesis 1 is absolutely true and that evolution is a total lie is that God has deliberately sent a delusion to those who refuse to believe the gospel of Christ so that the only option for them is the Judgment. Those who are genuinely born again of the Spirit of God know clearly that evolution is a lie and have absolutely no problem with Genesis 1 being literally true - that God spoke each stage of the universe and the world in an instant of time without having to use anything like evolution. One instant there was nothing and the next a whole universe of stars and planets spreading out almost to infinity. Concerning Christian "experts", anyone can put on the Christian "badge" and call themselves Christian, but that doesn't mean that they are genuinely born again of the Spirit of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kingdombrat Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 12 hours ago, The Barbarian said: I'm saying that biology isn't what makes us children of God. Adam and Eve were the first two humans who were given living souls directly by God. We are all descended from them. Let's entertain this idea for a moment. Let's put Adam and Eve into the Homo Sapien category as being who God chose to hand out the original human [Soul]. Let's say this is fact and there are tons of concrete evidence to back this up. It's more than a Theory, it's God's Theory! Does this mean: †Homo antecessor †Homo erectus †Homo ergaster †Homo floresiensis †Homo habilis †Homo heidelbergensis †Homo luzonensis †Homo rudolfensis †Homo naledi †Homo neanderthalensis are without Souls? 12 hours ago, The Barbarian said: Perhaps. Other animals are innocent; they can't sin. But we can. That's the part that always intrigues me. The act that makes us like God is an act of rebellion against Him. After Adam and Eve disobey God and eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil: Gen. 3:22 And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil: now, therefore, lest perhaps he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever. Consider God in the garden with Adam. "The garden is for you to enjoy, Adam. Live here, eat the fruits of the garden, except the fruit on that tree. No, not that one, that tree over there. If you eat the fruit of that tree, something terrible will happen." Now anyone with any understanding of human nature would know what was going to happen next. No one can tell me that God didn't realize what would happen. So there we are. I always thought that was interesting for that particular Scripture to fall right after Adam/Eve sinned myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddyv Posted December 12, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,265 Content Per Day: 2.90 Reputation: 2,302 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/03/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted December 12, 2020 28 minutes ago, Paul James said: The reason why you can't see that Genesis 1 is absolutely true and that evolution is a total lie is that God has deliberately sent a delusion to those who refuse to believe the gospel of Christ so that the only option for them is the Judgment. Those who are genuinely born again of the Spirit of God know clearly that evolution is a lie and have absolutely no problem with Genesis 1 being literally true - that God spoke each stage of the universe and the world in an instant of time without having to use anything like evolution. One instant there was nothing and the next a whole universe of stars and planets spreading out almost to infinity. Concerning Christian "experts", anyone can put on the Christian "badge" and call themselves Christian, but that doesn't mean that they are genuinely born again of the Spirit of God. Is it your opinion that no born again Christian can hold any view other than what you hold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Posted December 12, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted December 12, 2020 2 hours ago, teddyv said: Is it your opinion that no born again Christian can hold any view other than what you hold? No. I just read and believe what the Bible actually says. I agree with the Bible because it is God's communication with mankind. It clearly indicates that the universe created in six days, and has clear descriptions of what was created on each successive day. I don't agree with those who say it all happened over billions of years. If God wanted us to know that, He would have said so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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