OneAccord Posted April 5, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 147 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,587 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 5, 2003 Good list, yod. You've been doing your homework! The US has a lengthy list of dastardly deeds done on foreign soil as well. The ousting of democratically-elected Jacobo Arbenz is a premier example of US foreign policy in the interest of big business, in this case bananas, for example. But we don't hear about that on Fox news. Check out the School of the Americas, we train terrorists right here at Fort Benton, Georgia. Bin Laden was a lackey for the CIA at the launching of his career. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. How evil he is depends whose side he's on. The point is there is evil and corruption on every side, it's the very nature of Satan's kingdom. Satan tried to offer all to Jesus. What did Jesus say? "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve." Politics and world affairs are filthy and corrupt.. The ONLY hope we have is in Jesus. Sending fire down from heaven to consume them does not line up with Jesus' command to love your enemies. Sorry I can't endorse this. Is this God's judgement and wrath being poured out on Iraq and He is using US troops to do His will? I can't answer that, I honestly can't. I humbly submit to God's plan for the Tribulation but I won't play good guy/bad guy. The evildoers are ALREADY condemned (John 3:18). As for it being totally Biblical to protect the innocent by inflicting suffering on innocents (collateral damage) as well as 'guilty', please expound on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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OneAccord Posted April 6, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 147 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,587 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2003 yod: I totally appreciate that you are able to discuss this highly sensitive material without getting all bent out of shape. Believe me, I am not entirely convinced of anything, except that the Lord our God has a plan and He is going to carry it out regardless of all these talking heads on every side. yod says: I doubt that anyone believes we are squeeky clean but that is why we have elections. If we find out about corruption in America we can vote them out "if" we have the moral compass to do so. OA says: If you will recall, the last election was not won by a majority vote, it was essentially a political coup. Also, we may operate 'democratically' on our own soil (I am assuming you live here too) but we have been instrumental in rigging 'elections' on foreign soil, as in the case in Guatemala mentioned above, Chile back in the 70s and others, to serve US business interests. yod says ....yet it's all based on conspiracy theories rather than facts. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that ALL of what you say is true...but I reserve judgement until there is a reason to believe it. "If" any of this is true, they will be voted out in the next election. OA says: Yes, not only is Satan the ruler of this world, but he is the father of lies, too. It is quite well impossible to sort out the facts from the lies. I appreciate that you at least leave room for doubt in your own theories. It would be naive to be 100% convicted about anything that goes on in the political leaders' inner chambers or the corporate boardrooms. Praise God for sending the Truth into the world to rescue us from this mess. As for the next election.........I think it's going to be quite interesting. yod says: Was He speaking to individuals or government? I think it does line up perfectly with "love your neighbor as yourself" if we can defend the helpless. OA says: This is where it gets murky, isn't it? In the case of the current campaign in Iraq, I say that in the noble cause of 'defending the helpless' over there, we are actually creating a far more dangerous situation for ourselves and the rest of the world. We are stirring up a hornet's nest, to be sure. I simply don't believe it is all about rescuing an oppressed peoples. O.peration I.raqi L.iberation is steeped in hidden and not-so-hidden agendas. You asked a few posts back why we would stand by when the Indonesian Christians were being slaughtered by Muslim extremists. Great question. What valuable resources is there in Indonesia? Colombia: Why are we so eager to liberate the people from the brutul drug lords? Did you know there is one of the largest deposits of oil in the world underneath Colombia and Venezuela? Fact. But I digress. OA: "Is this God's judgement and wrath being poured out on Iraq and He is using US troops to do His will? I can't answer that, I honestly can't." yod: thank you for being intellectually honest about that point yod, I hope we can all be honest about this one, because one of the most serious blasphemies I can imagine is to do something of such magnitude as this war, or any other in history IN HIS NAME if it wasn't His will, if we are instead serving false prophets. That ol' Urim and Thurimm would be pretty handy right now. yod says: I wouldn't dream of condoning the death of any innocent people.....and you can't prove that even ONE innocent civilian has been purposely killed by America. I am sure that no soldier is intentionally killing innocent civilians point blank. BUT when someone orders cluster bomb attacks on villages, they must know that there are civilians in the houses. The soldiers are following orders, therefore I believe that the blood may not be required of them, but I do know that the terrible nightmares, post-traumatic stress and other devastating psych consequences that these young soldiers will experience is a high price to pay. Especially those involved in the hand-to-hand. Dropping bombs would be like playing video games with no personal contact with the carnage. yod says: They were all warned that America is coming for Saddam. They could leave....except for the ones who Saddam is threatening their lives and their families. Shall we let that bully continue or do something to stop him? Do you think that they were allowed to leave? Or had anywhere to go? Especially poverty-stricken villagers, were they to just set up camp out in the desert or what? And if this regime is so brutal as to use them as human shields, then we should consider them as HOSTAGES and treat them as such. It was a situation that military planners were well aware of from the outset, and should have been a huge consideration in the question of pursuing the war at all. yod says: I don't remember hearing about the USA breaking the legs of Iraqi POWs...or indiscrimanately shooting civilians...or cutting tongues out of people in the city square. We are very, very fortunate that it hasn't digressed to this in our country, as is common in many parts of the world. However we still have 641 POWs at Guantanamo Bay, many that have not even been charged yet, and they have been subjected to 'interrogations'. Two of them died from the effects of these interrogations. We are also watching our civil rights being eroding away under the Patriot Act II, and many constitutionalists fear that it is only a matter of time before the effects of this become something we regret forfeiting over. yod, truly our only hope is in the Lord.......some trust in chariots, but I'll trust in the name of the Lord my God. I don't believe there are any solutions, or ideals that are going to turn any of this around. This world is on a collision course with prophecy, and Revelation does not paint a pretty picture until the earth passes away and we get a new one. All we can do is cling to the Lord with our whole heart, and do all that we can in our own little sphere of influence to live for Him and proclaim His gospel of peace. I find it such an awesome priviledge that at the same time as I feel utterly powerless on this earth to alter the course of history, I am completely filled with His power by the Holy Spirit to touch lives for a glorious eternity. 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Guest shilou Posted April 6, 2003 Share Posted April 6, 2003 Wow you guys great conversation. I would also like to add here that we really need to take seriously that the US is not the wonderful sponsor she claims to be. Has anyone seen any of the children that were born after the Gulf war. The deformities were horrendous because of our use of depleted uranium in our bombs. When I hear the death toll of the abortions committed here legally I can't help but think a just God will never just let this all pass no matter how good some of us are. We are currently in the beginning of birth pangs and as any mother knows it will get worse before it gets better, so let's look to the Lord, not the government or the president or our soldiers or foreign policy or anything else of this world because not one bit of it can save us. Only God can and only through Jesus Christ. In Yeshua's love Shilou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted April 6, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.50 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2003 One Accord - Yod - -good job! Y'all debated and kept your cool. That's rare guys. I actually enjoyed reading this one! :bg: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catsmeow Posted April 6, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 439 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7,315 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 356 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/21/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2003 You asked a few posts back why we would stand by when the Indonesian Christians were being slaughtered by Muslim extremists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanakila Posted April 6, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 400 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2003 This has been quite a polite debate, and you guys did maintain your cool where I don't usually. I am just too biased I guess. (I admit it) Here is an article on Just War Theory (Justus Bellum) that my hubby wrote. Its in response to an inflamatory email that was sent around that basically said that the troops were disobeying God by fighting this war: http://my.homewithgod.com/junior/wkstudies...tianKnights.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted April 6, 2003 Share Posted April 6, 2003 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneAccord Posted April 7, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 147 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,587 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 7, 2003 You asked a few posts back why we would stand by when the Indonesian Christians were being slaughtered by Muslim extremists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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