Walking in the Spirit

[Waggles]

6 hours ago, Peterlag said:

The old self is entirely obliterated once a person is in Christ.

No 

thus we have the encouragement in the epistles on walking in the Spirit and walking in the light. 

For the rest of our time on Earth as disciples of Christ Jesus we battle between the flesh and the Spirit - but if we love righteousness in God and keep our eyes upon the prize, the salvation of our souls, we can be overcomers. 

Galatians 5:16  But I say, Walk in Spirit, and ye shall in no wise fulfill the lusts of the flesh. 
17  For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are contrary one to another; that ye may not do what things ye would. 

The old person, the natural person does not surrender entirely. A disciple must every single day choose to follow Christ and walk in the Spirit. 

Unfortunately many give up and go back into the world.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Waggles

[Paul James]

23 hours ago, Peterlag said:

What a great subject to bring up. I think we need to first begin to find out what the spirit is.

Try reading how Jesus described the Holy Spirit in John's Gospel.  Also, read the different references to the Holy Spirit that Paul wrote about.   It's always good to get the New Testament description rather than go looking for some mystical notion about Him.

[Paul James]

20 hours ago, TheBlade said:

Walking in the spirit...

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.  Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit."

"If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,] but do not have love, I gain nothing.  Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.  It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.  It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails"

Shall we keep going?

Just let me share a thought here.   I am an elder in the church, and I am called to pray for a sick person in accordance with James 5:14.  But I refuse because I believe that divine healing was limited just for the Apostolic Age, so the person remains sick.   Am I walking in the Spirit, or am I walking in the flesh because I am in disobedience to the Holy Spirit's instructions for elders to pray for sick people in the church, so that their prayer of faith will raise the sick person up to health?

[SwordMaster]

On 1/30/2021 at 3:29 PM, Paul James said:

We must remember that until the Day of Pentecost, believers were still subject to the Old Covenant; 

 

I don't want to side-track the discussion, but I felt the urge to correct this statement because it leads into many other doctrines. The old covenant ended with Christ's baptism by John the Baptist; it was fulfilled by Christ and abrogated. All that Jesus taught and demonstrated during His 3 year ministry was the new covenant which ushered the kingdom of God into the realm of men.

Many believe that the new covenant didn't begin until the cross or the resurrection, but a diligent study in the gospels demonstrates that in Christ's own words, He fulfilled and abrogated the old and inaugurated the new.

Blessings!

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[SwordMaster]

On 1/30/2021 at 3:57 PM, Josheb said:

@SwordMaster off-topic but I am curious about you. Are you familiar with the suzerain covenants commonly practiced in ancient times? Short answer will do. Not interested in derailing the op. 

 

Yes...suzerain-vassal covenants, promissory covenants, marriage covenants, and standard 1st century economic (business) covenants.

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[SwordMaster]

Perhaps I need to go further with what is still enigmatic to me here...

 

Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
 

According to how I am reading Paul here...if one is walking in the Spirit, then the "deeds (motions) of the flesh" will be mortified...rendered inert. Yet no one that I have ever known has ever confessed that at any time in their walk with God, even while having the things of God in their minds as often as they can, had they ever had the motions of the flesh subdued.

Now...when I was a young man in the Marines, I was stationed in Japan and for most of the time there I was hit with kidney stones, hospitalized, operated on (cutting my stomach muscles so that I couldn't sneeze without killing myself), and confined to my quarters because I couldn't do anything. All I did for practically a month and a half, was stay in my room, read my Bible, pray, quality time with God, and worship.

During this time, it came to pass that for a short period of time (that is, until I was shipped back to the States), for about two months or thereabouts, the motions of the flesh were sufficiently mortified in me. That is, all of the previous temptations of the mind and motions of the flesh (predominantly in sexual sin) were effectively null and void...in other words, I knew when I was hit with something, whether natural or demonic, but for lack of a better way of saying it...they affected me no greater than like water rolling off a duck's back.

So, I believe that I experienced this mortification of the motions of the flesh that Paul here talks about...but I have struggled ever since then to get back to that place to no avail. I have tried to walk in the Spirit as much as I can, but with all of the daily mental demands of adult life in this country, I have not succeeded. It seems that I have been missing something that I did while in Japan that I have not been able to figure out - hence the purpose and reason for this thread.

I do my best to walk in obedience to God every day. I do my best to try to keep spiritual, godly things in my mind...but that doesn't always work.

Through this conversation, the one thing that has come to my mind that I hadn't thought of before, is renewing the mind...it seems that renewing the mind is necessary before one can walk in the Spirit (keeping one's mind centered upon the things of the Spirit - Romans 8:5).

So, if this is the answer, it makes sense. While in Japan, I had nothing on my mind but God almost 24/7...and my mind eventually became renewed with the thought patterns of the Spirit. So I guess the answer is that I need to spend time memorizing Scripture...which makes sense as building one up mentally to be able to walk in the Spirit...

 

Joshua 1:8   This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.
 

Psalms 1:1-3   Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; but his delight is in the law of the LORD, and on his law he meditates day and night. He is like a tree planted by streams of water that yields its fruit in its season, and its leaf does not wither. In all that he does, he prospers.

 

So...thanks everyone, you helped me come to a conclusion and plan of action.

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[SwordMaster]

On 1/30/2021 at 4:27 PM, popsthebuilder said:

Wouldn't walking in the Spirit be basically turning from selfish worldly desires and doing for self, and turning towards the things one knows are good and help the sake of another?

 

I used to think so...but few of the suggestions made so far work according to Romans 8:13 in mortifying the motions (deeds) of the flesh. 

If all of the answers people have given so far were accurate, and the full answer, then practically everyone posting should not be hampered or falling to sin, yet would anyone say that this is true of themselves?

If just walking in obedience to God mortified the motions of the sinful flesh, then why do we still struggle with sin? Obedience can't be the answer...not in its fullness, anyway.

I believe Scripture is true, therefore walking in the Spirit, according to the Holy Spirit writing through Paul, eventually mortifies the deeds of the flesh...which means according to the Greek, that walking in the Spirit renders the motions of sin in the flesh ineffective against the one who is walking in the flesh. In other words, it isn't me keeping myself from a sinful action being motivated by the flesh - it is that the Spirit deadens those motions to the point that we know we are being attacked by sin, but that it doesn't have the power over us that it would normally have.

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[SwordMaster]

On 1/30/2021 at 4:49 PM, popsthebuilder said:

Would not walking in the Spirit be known according to ones doings? What is akin to the fruit of the Spirit?

Love (Greek: agape, Latin: caritas)

Joy (Greek: chara, Latin: gaudium)

Peace (Greek: eirene, Latin: pax)

Patience (Greek: makrothumia, Latin: longanimitas)

Kindness (Greek: chrestotes, Latin: benignitas)

Goodness (Greek: agathosune, Latin: bonitas)

Faithfulness (Greek: pistis, Latin: fides)

Gentleness (Greek: prautes, Latin: modestia)

Self-control (Greek: enkrateia, Latin: continentia)

 

From my studies and life experience, the fruit of the Spirit is what begins growing and maturing in a person's life as they spend more and more time in God's presence in prayer and worship (including personal quality time with God in fellowship conversation [just talking to God, in other words]). The more time one spends with God in His presence, the more he is saturated by His presence which has a direct affect upon one's behavior.

This is why we have people who call themselves Christians for decades, yet have none of the fruit apparent in their lives...because they believe they are saved, on their way to heaven, and don't have to do anything further. That includes spending time with God in prayer...people have not been taught the importance of prayer, nor the purpose of prayer, in our churches today (for the most part). And that lack of the basics in their lives is one of the major problems in the church today.

 

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[SwordMaster]

On 1/31/2021 at 12:16 PM, Josheb said:

@SwordMaster, do you find that answer or that practice helpful in answering the question, "What does 'walking in the Spirit' mean?" Anyone else find that consistent with walking in the Spirit? Or the standard set by Jesus or Paul? Or a proving response from which non-believers might benefit?

 

I find that the discussion is being side-tracked over and over again.

 

I do believe that I found the answer to what I was looking for...and in case anyone missed it, it appears that one must renew his mind before he is able to walk in the Spirit as Paul addresses in Romans 8:4-13. I used to be in the Word for most of my days as a younger man...it appears that I need to MAKE time to specifically meditate upon the Word.

I read at least an hour a day, for years...but just reading doesn't seem to be cutting it. The next step is to meditate...where the Hebrew and Greek words actually mean to mutter to yourself about...to talk to yourself about...not just read it. Just reading is good, don't get me wrong...but if we are not soaking our mind with the Word by meditating upon it, then it appears we are missing out on a great blessing.

 

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[SwordMaster]

On 2/1/2021 at 12:27 PM, Peterlag said:

What a great subject to bring up. I think we need to first begin to find out what the spirit is.

 

This is a good point, one of the first things I did was to investigate the word "spirit" in Paul's discussion in Romans 8 to determine whether or not it means the Holy Spirit or just "spirit"...and if just "spirit" (meaning NOT the Holy Spirit) then in what intention.

From what I can tell as to how it is used in the texts and the context, it intends the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the next logical step, is what does the phrase "walking in the Spirit" mean...because can it actually mean that one can live "in the Spirit" of God? That doesn't seem possible when a full and complete study on the Holy Spirit is made.

Therefore, the phrase "walking in the Spirit" is like a covenant legal term, like "eternal life" is, that does not actually mean what the general definitions of the words in the phrase mean.

Its like the word "abstract"...in general street terms, it is used of a style of art and paintings; but in a legal atmosphere it can take on either of two other meanings. In the court room, abstract means a summery of the charges and sentencing from the judges bench, called an "abstract of judgment." While in law enforcement circles, an abstract is all of the pertinent information on a warrant of arrest sent from one agency to another when the subject of the arrest warrant is apprehended in a jurisdiction other than the one in which the warrant was issued.

In like manner, the phrase "eternal life" as used by Jesus Himself (as an example) in John 17:3, does NOT mean what the generally accepted meaning of the words mean...here it is specifically used by Jesus as a new covenant legal term meaning that one is in covenant relationship with God. How do we know this? It would take hours to explain in this format with no ability to give diagrams, etc...the short answer is in the way He uses the term, which He used many times...sometimes to mean making it to the consummation of eternal life in heaven, and sometimes as covenant relationship with God.

Failing to make this Biblical distinction has led to numerous false ideologies and false teachings regarding salvation, eternal life, and who makes it to heaven.

 

In any case, I do believe that "the Spirit" here refers to the Holy Spirit, and is used in a metaphorical sense for one who, as the texts state, have so renewed their minds with the things of God that God and the things of the Spirit are practically always in either the backdrop, or forefront, of their minds...to the effect that all of the stimulus that their minds receive are automatically filtered through (for lack of a better way of saying it) a Holy Spirit sieve. 

what I mean is...no matter what they see or hear, what they see and hear passes through the renewed mind controlled by the Holy Spirit, and any Scripture that addresses that subject matter is brought to mind. What is according to the Spirit is reinforced...and what is according to the flesh is checked and rejected.

Anyway, these are my initial thoughts on the subject with no study behind them as yet.

 

Blessings!

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