Peterlag Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Waggles said: No thus we have the encouragement in the epistles on walking in the Spirit and walking in the light. For the rest of our time on Earth as disciples of Christ Jesus we battle between the flesh and the Spirit - but if we love righteousness in God and keep our eyes upon the prize, the salvation of our souls, we can be overcomers. Galatians 5:16 But I say, Walk in Spirit, and ye shall in no wise fulfill the lusts of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are contrary one to another; that ye may not do what things ye would. The old person, the natural person does not surrender entirely. A disciple must every single day choose to follow Christ and walk in the Spirit. Unfortunately many give up and go back into the world. Romans 6:2 How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordMaster Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 7 hours ago, Peterlag said: I have no idea what you are saying. Either we walk in the spirit (our new nature) or we don't. I think there is a concern here...Scripture doesn't appear to use "walking in the Spirit" as a descriptive of the regenerated person's new nature. If it did, then verse 13 would be an automatic phenomena and all Christians would not suffer through the motions of the sin in their flesh as moving them to sin. Walking in the Spirit according to Paul isn't a "natural" thing...it appears to be a choice that one must work at in order to 'get to that point' in their walk with God. Blessings! .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordMaster Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, Josheb said: Can I PM you about this? Just have a couple of questions. Sure...PM away! .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Paul James said: Try reading how Jesus described the Holy Spirit in John's Gospel. Also, read the different references to the Holy Spirit that Paul wrote about. It's always good to get the New Testament description rather than go looking for some mystical notion about Him. I'm not making this stuff up or reading it from some mystical notion. It is written... serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son serve in newness of spirit fervent in spirit serving the Lord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2021 14 minutes ago, SwordMaster said: This is a good point, one of the first things I did was to investigate the word "spirit" in Paul's discussion in Romans 8 to determine whether or not it means the Holy Spirit or just "spirit"...and if just "spirit" (meaning NOT the Holy Spirit) then in what intention. From what I can tell as to how it is used in the texts and the context, it intends the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the next logical step, is what does the phrase "walking in the Spirit" mean...because can it actually mean that one can live "in the Spirit" of God? That doesn't seem possible when a full and complete study on the Holy Spirit is made. Therefore, the phrase "walking in the Spirit" is like a covenant legal term, like "eternal life" is, that does not actually mean what the general definitions of the words in the phrase mean. Its like the word "abstract"...in general street terms, it is used of a style of art and paintings; but in a legal atmosphere it can take on either of two other meanings. In the court room, abstract means a summery of the charges and sentencing from the judges bench, called an "abstract of judgment." While in law enforcement circles, an abstract is all of the pertinent information on a warrant of arrest sent from one agency to another when the subject of the arrest warrant is apprehended in a jurisdiction other than the one in which the warrant was issued. In like manner, the phrase "eternal life" as used by Jesus Himself (as an example) in John 17:3, does NOT mean what the generally accepted meaning of the words mean...here it is specifically used by Jesus as a new covenant legal term meaning that one is in covenant relationship with God. How do we know this? It would take hours to explain in this format with no ability to give diagrams, etc...the short answer is in the way He uses the term, which He used many times...sometimes to mean making it to the consummation of eternal life in heaven, and sometimes as covenant relationship with God. Failing to make this Biblical distinction has led to numerous false ideologies and false teachings regarding salvation, eternal life, and who makes it to heaven. In any case, I do believe that "the Spirit" here refers to the Holy Spirit, and is used in a metaphorical sense for one who, as the texts state, have so renewed their minds with the things of God that God and the things of the Spirit are practically always in either the backdrop, or forefront, of their minds...to the effect that all of the stimulus that their minds receive are automatically filtered through (for lack of a better way of saying it) a Holy Spirit sieve. what I mean is...no matter what they see or hear, what they see and hear passes through the renewed mind controlled by the Holy Spirit, and any Scripture that addresses that subject matter is brought to mind. What is according to the Spirit is reinforced...and what is according to the flesh is checked and rejected. Anyway, these are my initial thoughts on the subject with no study behind them as yet. Blessings! . . I don't see what you see. I am walking in the spirit because it's who I am. The old is gone. We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual. The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once a person is in Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2021 13 minutes ago, SwordMaster said: I think there is a concern here...Scripture doesn't appear to use "walking in the Spirit" as a descriptive of the regenerated person's new nature. If it did, then verse 13 would be an automatic phenomena and all Christians would not suffer through the motions of the sin in their flesh as moving them to sin. Walking in the Spirit according to Paul isn't a "natural" thing...it appears to be a choice that one must work at in order to 'get to that point' in their walk with God. Blessings! .. Romans 6:2 How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? The Christians of today believe they are alive to sin and it's with much effort, frustration, and failure that they battle this sin nature the rest of their lives. It now seems clear to me that this concept of what the Christians believe today is not what the Scriptures teach. Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? We experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ. It’s dead and gone because it does not exist anymore. We become totally new in our spirit when we are born again, and this is how our old nature has been completely changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waggles Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,790 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 983 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/20/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, SwordMaster said: it is that the Spirit deadens those motions to the point that we know we are being attacked by sin, but that it doesn't have the power over us that it would normally have. right on there. Praying in tongues, praying in the Spirit is the most powerful spiritual weapon we have to confront temptation and any rising of the flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Posted February 2, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, SwordMaster said: I don't want to side-track the discussion, but I felt the urge to correct this statement because it leads into many other doctrines. The old covenant ended with Christ's baptism by John the Baptist; it was fulfilled by Christ and abrogated. All that Jesus taught and demonstrated during His 3 year ministry was the new covenant which ushered the kingdom of God into the realm of men. Many believe that the new covenant didn't begin until the cross or the resurrection, but a diligent study in the gospels demonstrates that in Christ's own words, He fulfilled and abrogated the old and inaugurated the new. Blessings! .. I can live with that! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordMaster Posted February 3, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 5 hours ago, Josheb said: Sounds good but remember we don't renew our own mind; it is renewed for us by the Word/Spirit and we should be collaborative agents pursuing more and more as prompted from God within. I see what you are saying, but I don't see that in Scripture... Ephesians 4:22-24 that you are to turn away from your former behavior and way of life, from the old man of sin that corrupts you spiritually through the lusts of deceitful propensities that seduce to sin, and lead to disappointment; and that you be in a continual state of spiritual renewal in the disposition of your mind, which God works in us as we practice righteousness and true holiness, enabling us to put on the new man. This is a translation straight from the Greek and its grammar. Paul says that we renew our own minds as we practice righteousness and holiness (the two sides of the coin of obedience), which makes perfect sense. In any kind of physical training, the more you do something, the more it affects your reflexes and muscle memory, the better you are at what you are practicing. The more we practice righteousness and holiness, the more our mind is trained for godliness...the more our minds are molded into the 'image' (if you will) of godliness which directly affects our attitudes and behavior. .. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordMaster Posted February 3, 2021 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 286 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 5 hours ago, Peterlag said: I don't see what you see. I am walking in the spirit because it's who I am. The old is gone. We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual. The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once a person is in Christ. There are a number of issues here with what Scripture actually teaches us, Peterlag, but I don't have time to get into them all. The ONLY thing that changes according to Scripture when a person gets saved, referencing his nature, is that now he is no longer just a man, he is a man with the Holy Spirit indwelling him. This is what the "new nature" is all about if you study the subject carefully...it does NOT mean that YOU changed significantly in any other way. The "old man" is the old man that used to practice sin, but is now not supposed to be, but YOU as you didn't change...that isn't what Scripture teaches. If the old self was "entirely obliterated" then you would not be here talking about it...because you place what is spoken of in figurative language as meaning literally, and in that there are a number of other problems. Not trying to be antagonistic, just trying to show you where what you claimed is not according to Scripture when it is taken as a whole. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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