Is apologetics necessary?

[halifaxchristian]

We are called to be apologetics in Scripture...I fully believe that. But i also believe that those who continually reject God in face of sound evidences should be castaways concerning the faith. If an atheist wants to deny God despite all common sense, reason, and scientific data...reject him as a heretic...that, peradventure, he might be ashamed and recant his ungoldy ways. Once...okay...twice...okay...three times...the balls in his court now.

Goodbye and God bless.

[halifaxchristian]

How are you going to convince anyone with even half a brain of the truth of theism or Christianity, (which arn't immediately obvious by the natural light, as Descartes would put it), without developing some sort of arguments to show the truth of it all?

How can you ever hope to fulfill the great commission without at least trying to intellectually convince people that what you're saying is true?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's funny. I was gonna say the same thing for evolution. "How are you going to convince anyone with even half a brain of the 'truth that we evolved from a rock?'"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the man whom he is trying to convince has a rock in that other half of his brain, then he has a good chance of succeeding.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Stuart DiNenno]

I just assumed that everyone knew that the minute you open your mouth before unbelief, that you are defending the faith whether you are witnessing or being accused. You are accused before you ever say the first word. Then if you have the power of God witnessing with you like Paul did it makes your defense and witness believable.

If you are referring to Paul's preaching to the Athenians, Paul did nothing more than proclaim the truths of the biblical God and the gospel of Jesus Christ before an audience that was willing to hear it. Some believed and some did not. He did not debate anything and he did not attempt to prove anything, in this case. And when he did debate and offer proof, it was only with men who already accepted that the Scriptures are the word of God, and the proof of his doctrine consisted solely of scriptural argumentation. I don't believe that there is any support for the practices of modern apologists in anything Paul did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I just assumed that everyone knew that the minute you open your mouth before unbelief, that you are defending the faith whether you are witnessing or being accused.

Maybe it's true that anytime we open our mouths before unbelief we're defending the faith in some way. But there are many times when we ought to keep our mouths closed before unbelief, and when we do open our mouths before unbelief, then we should do it in ways that are in line with the Bible's teaching. Again, in the Scriptures we never see believers debating with rank unbelievers or trying to offer proof to them. That sort of apologetics is foolish and futile.

Stuart DiNenno

Edited August 15, 2005 by Stuart DiNenno

[Bread_of_Life]

Trust and Obey,

That's funny. I was gonna say the same thing for evolution. "How are you going to convince anyone with even half a brain of the 'truth that we evolved from a rock?'"

Then thank goodness I'm not trying to convince anyone of that.

Stuart Dinenno

Your questions assume that unbelief is an intellectual problem and can be solved by appeals to the intellect. That's a false assumption.

So you say, although it would seem that I'm in as good a position as any to certify the fact that my position of unbelief, whether it be in God, or in the tooth fairy, is a genuinely intellectual proposition. I cannot imagine of a well evidenced argument otherwise that would not descend into ad hominem name calling ("you're mad", "no YOU'RE mad" etc).

I could, just as easily, claim that your belief is not an intellectual one - that it is pathological for example, a symptom of a mental illness. I might be right, but then, I'm not that insulting - and furthermore, I know that this cannot possible lead to fruitful argument.

And your questions assume that I am interested in discussing the things of God with atheists. That's another false assumption.

I make no such assumption, as my question was not addressed to you, but to the forum. Of course, I find it a shame that you should be so brusque, so abrupt, so lacking in affability - and so close minded as to coldly refuse an open invitation to discuss this with someone whose perspective genuinely matters in evangelism (the customer, so to speak) - but that is, I suppose, your problem.

However, of course, the door is always open if you want to change your mind. I can't claim to be a biblical scholar, so I won't be able to answer questions from a biblical perspective - but from a practical perspective, having been evangelised to by many faiths, in many different manners and methods, I can tell you first hand what I found most convincing, and least convincing, if you'd only give me the time of day.

Hopefully others on the board will be more welcoming to my views.

All the best,

Nik

Edited August 15, 2005 by ScientificAtheist

[Gerioke]

Trust and Obey,

That's funny. I was gonna say the same thing for evolution. "How are you going to convince anyone with even half a brain of the 'truth that we evolved from a rock?'"

Then thank goodness I'm not trying to convince anyone of that.

Stuart Dinenno

Your questions assume that unbelief is an intellectual problem and can be solved by appeals to the intellect. That's a false assumption.

So you say, although it would seem that I'm in as good a position as any to certify the fact that my position of unbelief, whether it be in God, or in the tooth fairy, is a genuinely intellectual proposition. I cannot imagine of a well evidenced argument otherwise that would not descend into ad hominem name calling ("you're mad", "no YOU'RE mad" etc).

I could, just as easily, claim that your belief is not an intellectual one - that it is pathological for example, a symptom of a mental illness. I might be right, but then, I'm not that insulting - and furthermore, I know that this cannot possible lead to fruitful argument.

And your questions assume that I am interested in discussing the things of God with atheists. That's another false assumption.

I make no such assumption, as my question was not addressed to you, but to the forum. Of course, I find it a shame that you should be so brusque, so abrupt, so lacking in affability - and so close minded as to coldly refuse an open invitation to discuss this with someone whose perspective genuinely matters in evangelism (the customer, so to speak) - but that is, I suppose, your problem.

However, of course, the door is always open if you want to change your mind. I can't claim to be a biblical scholar, so I won't be able to answer questions from a biblical perspective - but from a practical perspective, having been evangelised to by many faiths, in many different manners and methods, I can tell you first hand what I found most convincing, and least convincing, if you'd only give me the time of day.

Hopefully others on the board will be more welcoming to my views.

All the best,

Nik

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Christianity isn't about intellect. It's about faith. Even an idiot can have faith. Unfortunately intellect will not save you from destruction, faith will.

[Trust & Obey]

Trust and Obey,

That's funny. I was gonna say the same thing for evolution. "How are you going to convince anyone with even half a brain of the 'truth that we evolved from a rock?'"

Then thank goodness I'm not trying to convince anyone of that.

Great. Because the evolution thing has been beaten to death around here.

[Trust & Obey]

Trust and Obey,

That's funny. I was gonna say the same thing for evolution. "How are you going to convince anyone with even half a brain of the 'truth that we evolved from a rock?'"

Then thank goodness I'm not trying to convince anyone of that.

Stuart Dinenno

Your questions assume that unbelief is an intellectual problem and can be solved by appeals to the intellect. That's a false assumption.

So you say, although it would seem that I'm in as good a position as any to certify the fact that my position of unbelief, whether it be in God, or in the tooth fairy, is a genuinely intellectual proposition. I cannot imagine of a well evidenced argument otherwise that would not descend into ad hominem name calling ("you're mad", "no YOU'RE mad" etc).

I could, just as easily, claim that your belief is not an intellectual one - that it is pathological for example, a symptom of a mental illness. I might be right, but then, I'm not that insulting - and furthermore, I know that this cannot possible lead to fruitful argument.

And your questions assume that I am interested in discussing the things of God with atheists. That's another false assumption.

I make no such assumption, as my question was not addressed to you, but to the forum. Of course, I find it a shame that you should be so brusque, so abrupt, so lacking in affability - and so close minded as to coldly refuse an open invitation to discuss this with someone whose perspective genuinely matters in evangelism (the customer, so to speak) - but that is, I suppose, your problem.

However, of course, the door is always open if you want to change your mind. I can't claim to be a biblical scholar, so I won't be able to answer questions from a biblical perspective - but from a practical perspective, having been evangelised to by many faiths, in many different manners and methods, I can tell you first hand what I found most convincing, and least convincing, if you'd only give me the time of day.

Hopefully others on the board will be more welcoming to my views.

All the best,

Nik

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Christianity isn't about intellect. It's about faith. Even an idiot can have faith. Unfortunately intellect will not save you from destruction, faith will.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, but Christianity and the mind are not mutually exclusive. Christianity is a reasonable and rational faith.

Men say "show me and I'll believe."

Jesus says, "believe and I'll show you."

[Bread_of_Life]

Great. Because the evolution thing has been beaten to death around here.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of evolution either, or that you came from a rock.

[artsylady]

I'm not trying to convince anyone of evolution either, or that you came from a rock.

Would it please you if you were able to convert someone from Christianity to athiesm?

Be honest please. At least with yourself.

I am surprised you're still here actually. You've been here for years now, right? Then again, I guess there is a heck of a lot of information that you need to try to refute.

[Bread_of_Life]

Would it please you if you were able to convert someone from Christianity to athiesm?

Sure, I like people agreeing with me. But it's never happened online, and I've been online a long time - and it's only happened once in real life - so I'm not holding out much hope that anyone is ever going to agree with me on here religion-wise.

I am surprised you're still here actually. You've been here for years now, right? Then again, I guess there is a heck of a lot of information that you need to try to refute.

Surprised? How come? Thought I'd get chucked off? Bored?