gypc Posted August 25, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 972 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1964 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Greetings~ Why would G-D and Jesus the Christ not beable to take care of everyone, they are everywhere, aren't they. Now I am throwing more questions into the lion's den! Snow <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's fine................they are able because they are one.......if the Holy Spirit is with us, that means Jesus.........."I will never leave you nor forsake you" They arenot they////they are he! Is 44:8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted August 25, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2005 re: Is belief in the Trinity essential to one's Salvation? Snow <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Did the thief on the cross believe in the Trinity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trust & Obey Posted August 25, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,091 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2005 Jesus said you must believe in His deity in order to be saved. But, nowhere is belief in the Trinity explicity demanded for salvation. But, seeing as Jesus said you must believe He is God... and assuming that the person also believes that the Father is God... it stands to reason that they believe in the Trinity... unless they are Oneness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trust & Obey Posted August 25, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,091 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2005 The answer is unequivicably no, you do not have to adhere to the doctrine of the Trinity in order to be saved. The Bible does not explicitly state or imply that your eternal salvation hinges upon the belief in the Trinity. The factor of your salvation is Christ alone. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hear! Hear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trust & Obey Posted August 25, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,091 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2005 The answer is unequivicably no, you do not have to adhere to the doctrine of the Trinity in order to be saved. The Bible does not explicitly state or imply that your eternal salvation hinges upon the belief in the Trinity. The factor of your salvation is Christ alone. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He who does not have Christ does not have the Father, and vice versa. You cannot know Christ except by the Holy Spirit's leading. You MUST know ALL THREE PERSONS to know the ONE TRUE GOD. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> When I got saved I had no idea what the Trinity was. God saved me due to my repentance and faith in Christ. It wasn't until a month or so later that I started learning all of these theological things. I know for a fact that I was saved before I learned about the Trinity. So, how could it be a prerequisite? Do you have any examples in the Bible where the apostles held out the Trinity as something to be understood before salvation could be received? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halifaxchristian Posted August 25, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 722 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2005 Too many verses to quote...so for lack of time...let me quickly reference: "For there are THREE that bear record in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these THREE are ONE."-1 John 5:7 If you dispute that passage...please see the Textus Receptus thread. I'm not even going to get involved in the Textus Recepticus debate. I have very little sanity to begin with. To waste what little I have on that discussion would truly be tragic. So then I take it you do not adhere to the written decrees such as Nicea, or the Apostles' Creed, but the Bible? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Correct...I do not abide by councils...especially by a pagan Church (RCC). I abide by the Word...as Jesus taught and the Holy Ghost teaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trust & Obey Posted August 25, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,091 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2005 The answer is unequivicably no, you do not have to adhere to the doctrine of the Trinity in order to be saved. The Bible does not explicitly state or imply that your eternal salvation hinges upon the belief in the Trinity. The factor of your salvation is Christ alone. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> One must believe Jesus is God to be saved though, yes ? In effect you may be right that one doesn't have to say " I believe in the Trinty [ proper ] " BUT- the fact remains, you must believe and confess the Jesus is Lord in order to be saved. So in reality- yes, one must believe in the [ doctrine of the ] Trinity to be saved. God bless, Tim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually that's not true. Doctrines never saved anyone. The doctrine of the Trinity wasn't even developed until a little more than 300 years after Christ's death upon the cross. So if one must believe in the doctrine of the Trinity for salvation, what happened to all the thousands of persons who believed into Christ before the doctrine was developed? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So you are telling me I can deny that Jesus is God on the grounds that it's labled a "doctrine" - yet still get to heaven ? No, because Jesus said you must believe that He is the "I am" or else you would die in your sins. So, belief in Christ is required. But, fully understanding the implications of the Godhead... or even that there is a Godhead... is unnecessary. Jesus says, "come unto Me all ye that labor and are heavy laden." It is that simple. Come to Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halifaxchristian Posted August 25, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 722 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 25, 2005 Are you Roman Catholic by any chance? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not by any chance! Why do you ask ? More than just the Catholics believe in the Trinity my friend! Be blessed, Tim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I asked because your previous response made just about the same argument that the Catholic Church did in their council decrees of Nicea and Constantimople. That argument being basically, "If anyone confesses anything other than what this council has decreed (or dogmatically defined), let him be anathema (or cursed to hell, basically)." BTW: Maybe I should point out here that the term essential means something that it integral to the functioning of something. So when someone asks, "Is X essential," he or she is asking if it's an absolute requirement. For example, your heart is an essential part of your body. Without it you would die. I have not yet found a single verse or verses which explicitly state or imply that unless one believes in "the Trinity" that he will not be saved. Nor have I found anywhere that states or implies that a confession of "the Trinity" is a confession unto salvation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I really must get going...but quickly...you must believe in the "Trinity" to be saved...because the Bible says that God is a "Trinity". You must believe in God. If God is a Trinity, He is a Trinity. He can't and won't stop that. It's a fact. The tread doesn't say...DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY...which is a whole other topic. The question is...IS BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY ESSENTIAL TO SALVATION??? Obviously...if God IS IN FACT Triune...one would have to believe that for salvation. If God is not Triune...one would not have to believe that...make sense? Would you not agree that IF God is Triune...you would have to believe that for salvation. If not...falling short of this would be falling short of having the correct God for salvation. Anyway...God bless you all and talk to you later on tonight, Lord willing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'll wait for your reply, but I'll refer you back to one of my first responses to this thread, where I wrote that an elemental understanding of the Triune nature of God comes through experiencing His indwelling, after having believed into Jesus Christ and confessing His Lordship. However, believing in a doctrine or a creed, or a definition of that reality is not essential to salvation at all. It appeared to me that he original poster was asking about believing the doctrine of the Trinity rather than the elemental understanding of the Triune nature of God. I think that we are saying the same thing in terms of how we perceive God in our spirit after having once received Him, and understanding the intrinsic truth of the Triune nature of God in the Scriputres. However, where I believe we part ways is where you believe that belief is necessary prior to salvation (or after), I simply do not. We never find that Peter preached the Trinity prior to his converting the Ethiopian, and neither did Paul preach the Trinity to the Roman jailer in Acts 16. He only said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved, you and your household." Even though the reality of who God is was certainly made known to these persons in the Spirit, there is no documentation that they had to continue to believe in the Triune nature of God for their salvation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think that I get what you are hinting at and I agree...allow me to elaborate... If someone receives Jesus Christ as their Saviour do they first need to be taught about the Trinity? Of course not, and I hope that I did not come off that way in my posts. What I do believe is that ONCE A PERSON IS SAVED, the Holy Ghost, Whom Jesus will send to guide the believer into all Truth...WILL WITNESS TO THAT PERSONS SPIRIT THE TRUTH OF GOD'S TRIUNE NATURE. A saved person new in the faith may not be initially SURE about the Trinity...but certainly will not DENY the Trinity...and definitely will come to CONFESS the Godhead in no uncertain terms. Hope we are now on the same wavelength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted August 25, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted August 25, 2005 I think that I get what you are hinting at and I agree...allow me to elaborate... If someone receives Jesus Christ as their Saviour do they first need to be taught about the Trinity? Of course not, and I hope that I did not come off that way in my posts. What I do believe is that ONCE A PERSON IS SAVED, the Holy Ghost, Whom Jesus will send to guide the believer into all Truth...WILL WITNESS TO THAT PERSONS SPIRIT THE TRUTH OF GOD'S TRIUNE NATURE. A saved person new in the faith may not be initially SURE about the Trinity...but certainly will not DENY the Trinity...and definitely will come to CONFESS the Godhead in no uncertain terms. Hope we are now on the same wavelength. Absolutely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted August 25, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted August 25, 2005 Greetings~ Thank you for your replies to this subject. I read all your answers. It seems it can be debatable as to the correct answer. I believe in G-D, The Father, Jesus The Christ, Father's Son, yet I have trouble when it comes to the Holy Spirit. I don't mean any disrespect. I have heard about the Trinity since I was very small, even spoke it in one of the creeds. I know that the Bible says that the Comfortor was sent to us until the return of Christ. Why would G-D and Jesus the Christ not beable to take care of everyone, they are everywhere, aren't they. Now I am throwing more questions into the lion's den! Snow <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think that your trouble can be cleared up by reading John 14 and asking yourself the following questions: 1) Who is the Comforter? 2) Who sends the Comforter? 3) In in context of what the Lord Jesus is saying in this chapter, who abides in the believers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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