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Luke 6:37Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: 38Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again. 39And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch? 40The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master. 41And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 42Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye. 43For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 44For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. 45A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. Matt 7:15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

This is a lie right out of the Kenneth Hagin and Ken Copeland handbook!!!!!!!!!!! Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." 8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD. Job 2:3 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason." Your making the same mistake that Jobs friends made. If the devil had a "legal right" to attack Job, he would have said it................and the big one that kills WOF doctrine is God said without reason. Hows that working for you???

This is a lie right out of the Kenneth Hagin and Ken Copeland handbook!!!!!!!!!!! Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." 8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD. Job 2:3 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason." Your making the same mistake that Jobs friends made. If the devil had a "legal right" to attack Job, he would have said it................and the big one that kills WOF doctrine is God said without reason.

Blood of Jesus = NO CURSE!!!!! Serving Jesus= persecution Satan's attacks are not curses!!!

If you are under the Blood of Jesus you and yours are free from any curses!!!!! Gal 3: 13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Wow!! Good word

I would have blocked it to. 2 wrongs don't make a right!

John 2:9When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, 10And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now. Let me tell ya, good wine ain't grape juice!!

Romans 9:18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. 19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' " 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

A few years ago I was having problems with all my joints. I couldn't do hardly anything. Then after about 3 months of that my throat started swelling. It got bad enough that I had to be rushed to the hospital. They couldn't figure it out........until I went to a specialist. He suggested to much caffeine.........so I quit cold turkey. I went through a couple of days of bad headaches. But after a few months of having no caffeine, I was a new man.............my body didn't hurt anymore and my throat never swelled up again.

Ya know, that's a good question. Does the bible ever say we make a choice or that we're chosen, or both? Hmmmmm..........

Romans 8: 28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. If we could only just rest in his will, we wouldn't get angry..........because we would know that whatever is going on in our lives is working for our good!!! God is faithful

In my own experience I believe I got the Holy Spirit the moment I ask the Lord to be my Lord. One night at a prayer meeting about a year after I'd been saved, some people were laying hands on me to recieve the Holy Spirit. Nothing happened........people said things like you don't have enough faith yet. Man I didn't know what to do........I was clueless. Well about two weeks later I was driving home from church praising the Lord and like an explosion in the car.........I felt the presence of the Lord I had never felt. I began to speak in new tongues. That was about 25 yrs ago. Since then I have felt his glory many times and I've always prayed in tongues but I don't think I was filled with the Holy Spirit that night...............I just believe that the Lord gave me a gift and has allowed me to come into presence. When I first got saved I was fired up............the night I spoke in tongues I was fired up......I'm fired up right now. I believe the moment I got saved his Spirit made his dwelling in me. As far as an awesome feeling..........they come and go.....but my faith in him stands. Over the years I've come to know that I can go into his throne room by the Blood of Jesus and that he will never leave me or forsake me. And that being filled with his Spirit happens because of the Blood. Not because of some ceremony but because of his mercy towards me. Anyway, that's how I see it and if I'm wrong may he open my eyes.

Heb 10:1The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming

Heb 4:14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are

There IS NO Scriptural defense for such a lying doctrine. This is true because there are so many scriptures that would contradict this doctrine.

Yod....I love to study the Old Test.....I have been defensive when it comes to the law and grace. I ask you all to forgive me if I over did it! I love the body and I'm sometimes to quick to defend her from any form of false doctrine..........not saying that observing the law is false as long as no one is trying to be justified by it. Peace and love to you all

Shalom Liz, Amen, you are correct. There is a time to warn a divisive person and leave them. Titus 3. I wonder if they said that about Paul.hmmm.................Wait a minute, he's the one that wrote that!

I digg ya and appriciate ya. My last post was in response to another post that I quoted but was deleted by the poster.

edited: I don't want to skin anyone...............I'm trying to see how this thread looks unmerciful. To me it's showing the most mercy and love to all by defending the cross. If someone new to the Lord comes on here, we who have been with the Lord for years should always lead to the cross as the power of God. When threads and post are written that could take away or add to the cross, we should warn out of love not to do it but at the same time understanding that discussions about such things is good and brings to the surface the message of the cross. I'm sorry to all if it appears like I'm trying to bash someone........really I'm not and I don't have anything against anyone on here. I'm not trying to be some special annoited one, just a lover of the Lord who loves the saints.!!! And, I might add..........I love them ribs to

2 Tim 3:1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God

Romans 14:1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written: " 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.' " 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. 13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. 19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. 22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin. This scripture in it's context is talking about one mans liberty and one who is weak..the disputable matters he is talking about are food, drinks and days of the week...... This is not talking about not defending the cross. Really I'm not trying to prove anything but just simply defending the cross.

I don't like it either. When we discuss the rapture, women preachers or long hair threads, I like to look and weigh options but when the cross of Christ is being threatened I stand up straight and defend it strong. And that's really out of love. If I see that my fellow brothers and sisters might be going the way of false doctrine that empties the cross of it's power, I'm gonna blow a trumpet. Yes, I think discussion is healthy.........that's one of the reasons I'm here but we must stand for the cross............and I am not judging anyones motive or soul. Most Mormans I have met had very good motives but that don't make them right. The christian jews that were trying to get gentiles to follow the law probably had good motives but Paul rebuked them anyway because it would hurt the cause of Christ and damn many souls.

Gal 1:6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel