AdHoc Posted January 6, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,051 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 1,460 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted January 6, 2022 3 hours ago, transmogrified said: Here it is stated that the resurrection of the dead in Christ will take place at the coming of the Lord, and not before it, nor after it. But when it was asked if this resurrection of the dead in Christ would take place at the coming of the Lord that is shown to occur immediately after the tribulation of those days in Matthew 24: 29-31, it was said, 'No. Not quite.' Yes. The reference you gave is Christ REVEALED to every eye over Judea, not Christ as a THIEF for the Church. The coming as a THIEF is before the Tribulation. The coming as lightening is "AFTER the Tribulation of those days". 3 hours ago, transmogrified said: Are you saying that 1 Thess. 4 is a pre-tribulation event? Yes. See 5:9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transmogrified Posted January 6, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 795 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted January 6, 2022 On 1/5/2022 at 3:52 PM, AdHoc said: Verse 14 states that the dead will come with Christ when He returns to earth (see Rev.19, Jude 14) Does Jesus return to the earth in 1 Thess. 4:14? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted January 6, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,051 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 1,460 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted January 6, 2022 1 minute ago, transmogrified said: Does Jesus return to the earth in 1 Thess. 4:14? He is in the clouds - the air. He has "descended" from heaven. He continues His journey to earth after the rapture of 1st Thessalonians 4 and once He has finished judging the Church in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transmogrified Posted January 6, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 795 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted January 6, 2022 Quote Any body who believes in Jesus Christ and who dies is "the dead in Christ". The resurrection of Moses, who believed in Jesus (Deut.18:18), the resurrection of those in Matthew 27:53, and the resurrection of those at the last trumpet in 1st Thessalonians 4 are the dead in Christ. Is Moses the only Old Testament saint who will be included in the dead in Christ that will be resurrected in 1 Thess. 4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transmogrified Posted January 7, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 795 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 98 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2022 Hi Adhoc... Good to talk with you. One of the foundational principles of the doctrine of Christ listed in Hebrews 6 is the resurrection of the dead. As we have said, no one knows the day or the hour, but we do know from 1 Thess. 4 that the resurrection of the dead in Christ must happen before the rapture. Jesus said in John 6 that 'everyone who sees the Son and believes on him he will raise him up at the last day.' Paul said the same thing that 'we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump. There cannot then be a resurrection of the 'dead in Christ' before the tribulation and then another resurrection for 'everyone who sees the Son and believes on him,' at the last day, because these are the same people. 1 Thess. 4 'the dead in Christ' are resurrected John 6: 40 'all that see the Son and believe on him' are resurrected 1 Cor. 15: 51 'We shall all be changed...' These are all the same people as you have said: Quote Any body who believes in Jesus Christ and who dies is "the dead in Christ". Knowing that Jesus said the resurrection of all the believers would take place on the last day and knowing that Paul specifically stated the resurrection of the dead in Christ must happen before the rapture, there can be no rapture before the last day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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