AdHoc

Hey Sister ..... NICE!

I think your argument fails with the word "WHOLE" or "ALL" (the earth). There is no place to sit it out. The rest of the verse agrees. "Those ON EARTH" will be tried. Added to this the wording is not "KEPT IN THE HOUR", but "KEPT FROM THE HOUR". Added to this the word "HOUR" cannot mean a PLACE. It means that some are ABSENT DURING THE TIME of trial. The verse seems far from vague. It seems emphatic to me. They had already been awarded "crowns" but are warned that they could be lost.

Thank you for the invitation. Here, very briefly, is my understanding. In Matthew 13 the Lord Jesus gave seven parables on the Kingdom. By Kingdom I mean that area or sphere where Jesus is King and His instructions are followed. While He was on earth the demons were subject to Him and angels ministered to Him, making Him King of the principalities of heaven. But our Lord never interfered with the kings of men. So, during the gospel age, the "Kingdom of Heaven" pertains to the Church only. The seven parables of Matthew 13 show the development of this Kingdom of Heaven (NOT Kingdom IN Heaven). In these parables certain opposition was to be expected. Unfruitful Christians, Counterfeit Christians, a mustard seed that brings forth Nebuchadnezzar's Tree and Leaven are put there by the enemy. Three of four Parables told from the boat have a harvest and one alludes to a harvest, being bread. And the Lord was clear that the end of the age for the Church was a HARVEST (v.39). Moving to prophecy on the end of the age, we see four harvests (Rev.14). 2nd Peter 1:20 forbids private interpretation of prophecy. That leaves only the Bible and Nature to interpret prophecy. And if we study the harvest in nature and the harvest in the Bible (Leviticus 23) it is clear that any harvest is divided into three sub-harvests. It is ONE HARVEST, but no farmer will reap unripe fruit. That which is first ripe is NOT left on a Tree or bush. It is taken into the farmers HOUSE because he has waited long for the sweet fruit. Some time later the rest of the crop ripens and a general harvest takes place. The crop goes into the farmers BARN. The law of the harvest says that gleanings must be left for the weak, sickly, disadvantaged like widows and fatherless children. That gives THREE GATHERINGS in ONE HARVEST. And so is the rapture - by the mouth of Jesus Himself (Matthew 13:39). But this is not all. If there are "partial raptures" and the rapture is split into gatherings for a harvest, we can expect to see SOME Christians in the clouds with the Son of Man while SOME are left to face the Great Tribulation. And this is the case! In at least THREE scriptures we see Christians saved from the Great Tribulation. The most notable is Revelation 3:10. There, AS A REWARD, Overcomers will be "KEPT FROM THE HOUR OF TRIAL" that encompasses the WHOLE earth. Note the grammar. It is NOT "Kept IN the hour". It is "kept FROM the hour" And the usage of the "HOUR" means that some are ABSENT for the TIME of the Great Tribulation. Next, Luke 21 is different to Matthew 24 and 25. It deals mainly with 70 AD. But this prophecy ends in verse 24 with the times of the Gentiles FULL. The Lord Jesus abruptly changes to the signs of His coming. Like many prophecies, He jumps over time that is not relevant - like Joel's prophecy that Peter quoted in Acts 2. 2,000 years are skipped over. In Luke 21 the Lord has not yet come because in verse 26 his COMING is mentioned but verse 27 refers the reader BACK TO WHEN THESE THINGS BEGIN. According to Matthew 24 the coming of Jesus in great glory is "AFTER the Tribulation of those days". So in Luke 21:35-36 the diligent and watchful Christian who gets to stand before the Son of Man does so WHILE HE IS STILL IN THE CLOUDS. Notice too, like Revelation 3:10, it is CONDITIONAL. It is a REWARD for watching. Next, in Philippians 3:9:14 Paul is opening his heart abut his state of Christian maturity. Paul was not sure that he was mature enough. This had serious consequences. Paul says that he would need maturity to "ATTAIN to the resurrection" and to get the PRIZE of the "Upward call". he is addressing the SAME SUBJECT as 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17 - a special resurrection (like Revelation 20:1-6) and a PRIZE of a call to go upwards! The KJV is not wrong in its translation, but it is misleading. The New King James corrects it. It is a "calling on high", not a "High calling". So Paul says that there is a "out-resurrection", or "exceptional-resurrection" to be ATTAINED and a PRIZE rapture to be gained ONLY IF YOU ARE MATURE. Conversely, there are at least FOUR scriptures that show saints going through the Great Tribulation. In Revelation 7:9-16 we find a huge crowd from every nation who went through the Great Tribulation. The reason given is that their "garments" needed washing. "A Garment in parable is one's works (Rev.19:7-8). In Revelation 12:17 those who "had the testimony of Jesus Christ" must flee to a wilderness and be helped by the earth from the persecution of the Dragon. No escape for them! In Revelation 13:7 the Beast makes war with the saints during his rule AND OVERCOMES THEM! In Revelation 18:4 we find God's people in Mystery Babylon. With these, and more proofs, a split rapture, or multiple partial rapture is fact. The only objection left is; "why did the Holy Spirit not mention that a pre-tribulation rapture was a PRIZE in 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17"? But if you read the whole letter the answer is given. The Thessalonians are the best Church in the New Testament. No moral problems are attributed to them.

Yeah. I just wanted to be clear because the KJV, for all its excellence, didn't quite transmit the meaning. The subject of tis passgae in Philippians 3 is the same as 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17 - resurrection and rapture. Only, in Philippians the "OUT-resurrection" ("ex-anastasis") and the PRIZE of the firstfruit rapture must be ATTAINED TO. Paul, as he wrote that, had less than four years left to his martyrdom - and he wasn't convinced that he'd attained to it. Now that is a wake-up call!

Yes, but then its too late. But I know what you're getting at:

Don't expect anything from your flesh. It'll get exited about what is illegal. But maybe our lives are in a comfort zone and we don't want upheaval. The outer man is alive and well. The grand Type is Amalek. God has declared war "from generation to generation". Amalek was known because he attacked the aged, the sick and the weak stragglers. On Sunday at midday when you've just had a meaty Word and sung some of the old songs that edify, the flesh will be indifferent. On Friday after a hard week with little appreciation from your boss and your wife, the lingering eye contact with an eligible woman will have your flesh doing an Irish River Dance. Double vigilance when you're weak! Indifference to prophecy is OK when it doesn't apply to you. Guys want to bang heads over Daniel. But it is about "Daniel's People". Shall I lose my brother over something that does not concern me. Even the Fig Leaves can be viewed with a cold heart. It's Israel and their Law. But my attitude towards my brother when I expound is VERY important. "That evil servant" did it and lost the kingdom because his Master came as a thief (Matt.24). Now that moves me!

Agreed. Can't argue with that! Have you ever considered that prophecy is supposed to get our attention. I makes us "strive" for the PRIZE of the "UPward Call" (lit. Gk.- Phil.3:9-14)

You did a masterful job of ducking every one of my objections. So let's try another direction in answering yours. Israel, or the Jews (if you wish) have two Covenants with God. The one of Promise made with Abraham and his seed, and the one made with Jacob's seed at Sinai. In which Covenant (scripture please) is FAITH required. In the one made with Abraham the Jews' part is circumcision, and in the Covenant of Sinai, keeping the Law is required. How can my perspective contradict Isaiah 65 when I gave Daniel 12:1-2 as proof that even the SLAIN are returned to their Land? How can my perspective be against Isaiah 65 when in the Valley of dry bones, "the WHOLE house of ISRAEL" (v.11) is resurrected and united in their Land. Are not these the "baddies". Their sins are what got them deported to other nations. And what FAITH is required in verse 23 to "cleanse all Israel"? Let's join together and count how many times God said He would forgive Israel with no mention of conditions except to return to Him. I'll start: 25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins. (Is 43:24–25)

I'll play the "Devil's Advocate" for the sake of debte, especially with my old contender @Marilyn C (smiley) For those living in the "Bible belt" of the USA, I assume they've heard something about rapture and "the end of the world". But the millions in the Amazonas and Siberia have hardly heard of Jesus. I think that in Arizona you might have a chance, but the Mongolian shepherd boy is not going to be moved by what happens in Jerusalem. His life is just to hard to scare him. But this does not mean I'm against the plan. Paul, under inspiration, said that even those who, out of jealousy against him, who told the authorities tat he was preaching another king, were preaching Christ. I say, all avenues are open, but that we must not forget that for a man to turn, he must be convicted that he s a sinner. He has to confess Jesus as Lord. Gehenna must be more frightening than siding with the Beast and getting his mark. "Fear not them which can kill the body .... (Matt.10:28). What say you all?

I'm not so sure about your appreciation for the "blood" of Jews and about "circumcised in heart with Christ's way". 1. the promise to Abraham was to him and his SEED. If Jew A has four children they are seed of Abraham. If one of them marries a Turk and they have four children, they are SEED of Abraham via the Jewish part. If you argue that the bloodline is untrue, you have then to explain why Jesus could be a Jew with Rahab, Ruth and company in His genealogy. Scripture validates the male line as Jesus is of David's House. So also does scripture validate the female line as Jesus was a Jew from Mary - him not having a biological father. 2. Ezekiel 37 covers Israel's recovery. Since seed of Jacob died in Egypt, the Wilderness, the Land of Canaan and the countries that they were dispersed to LONG before Christ's "WAY", Ezekiel must include grave sinners. Daniel 12:1-2 shows that even the evil will be resurrected and returned to the Land. The matter is confirmed by Pentecost were there were many "PIUS" men from the dispersion in Jerusalem form diverse countries. Why were thy not in Israel? 3. Jumping ahead of Romans 2, Romans 11 is a serious indictment against "ALL ISRAEL". They are "concluded in unbelief by God until the times of the Gentiles be full" That is, Israel, as a recognized Nation by the Holy Spirit remains in unbelief till the end of the age, and God's forgiveness of their sins is pure grace. The matter is certainly not simple.

I am not gifted with evangelism although I am aware of each and every Christian's duty to preach both the gospel of grace and the gospel of the Kingdom. So my experience is not comprehensive. My understanding is that a man must first be born again and then he will have a chance of understanding God's Word, especially prophecy. I would like to quote Romans 1 on the general condition of unregenerate man. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: My question is, what chance does any man have of understanding the things of God - especially the complexities of prophecy, if God has darkened the mind AND the man acts foolishly? What the Holy Spirit was given for was convicting of sin and judgment. So John 16:7-9 ... Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; (Jn 16:7–9) Your feedback and experiences with the "last days" scenario would be very interesting.

Yes. The Church has TWO STANDINGS, just as Israel did when Balaam tried to curse them. The one standing is their POSITION in Christ. Here, God only sees Christ and we are all IN HIM. We are loved, approved and justified just like God's Son. But Judges and Acts tell us that Israel worshiped idols in Egypt, throughout their 40-year wilderness and in the Good Land. Israel had a DISPOSITION for idol worship. This ended in defeat and dispersion among heathens. The Church is the fairest of Brides in Christ's eyes, but the parables make it quite clear that she will not be without spot or wrinkle when He comes. That ... will take another 1,000 years.

No my dear sister. Your verse says WHO immersed us into One Body - NOT the SUBSTANCE of Christ's Body. Here is what scripture says about that 15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. (1 Co 6:15) "OUR BODIES" are physical. That is why, when Christ predicted His Church in Matthew 16 He based it on "The GATES of Hades". The Church suffers loss when a member dies and is BUILT when men in resurrection are RAISED. In Luke 24:38-39 our Lord was very particular when He said that His risen BODY was not spirit! You must also consider another point with your example. "ONE BODY" is not the LOCAL Assembly. It is the UNIVERSAL Assembly. DIVISIONS (denominations) are a matter of the LOCAL Church Yet again you have misread the grammar. The Holy Spirit, through Paul, states emphatically that divisions are a result of the flesh. I 1st Corinthians the Church is rebuked over their DIVISION caused by Apollos wrong doctrine about Baptism that caused the believers of Ephesus NOT to receive the Holy Spirit in Acts 19. Those who were supporters of Apollus are rebuked AS WELL as those who were for Christ 1st Corinthians 1:10-16. There he asks "IS CHRIST DIVIDED"? Your answer above promotes an answer of YES! But in Chapter 3 Paul is much stronger. Verses 1-4 read; 1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Any division, even on so great a matter as Baptism, is "CARNAL" and causes Christians to be stunted in their growth! And so it is in Ephesians 4. TWO UNITIES are promoted. The UNITY of the Spirit, already established (v.3) must be kept "TILL the UNITY of the THE Faith is come in. P.S. 1. What is "spiritual" is God's House (1st Pet 2:4). God is a Spirit (Jn.4:24) and does not dwell in physical Houses any more. P.S. 2. Emmanuel (God with us) will live in a House made with hands in the Millennium, but Emmanuel is Jesus THE MAN "in Whom all the fullness of the Godhead dwells BODILY" (Col.2:9). Ezekiel's Temple - of course.

Yes. This could be. The Jews were flattened by the accuracy of Isaiah concerning Christ's first coming. And history scholars are astounded at Daniel. But no one was aghast more than Cyrus when he occupied Babylon and found a foreign people there with a book written 150 years before with his name, spelt correctly, written as conqueror.

Your second last paragraph was sorely needed. There is much debate as to why the word "Ekklesia" was translated Church by such eminent scholars. What is sure is that the Roman Church exerted all its might to have it that way, just as "Easter" is used instead of Passover in Acts.12:4. And one can well see the extent of this mistranslation when we see that a heathen political assembly could be called "the Church" in Acts 19:39 and a riotous mob in verses 32 and 41. How far astray we are when a riotous mob or a dark empty building can be equated with the glorious Body of Christ. What skulduggery! The very first allusion to the real meaning of the word "Ekklesia" is the Nation of Israel as they encamped by three Tribes a side around the Tabernacle. It was called the "Tabernacle of CONGREGATION"! Day and night for over 38 years Israel was that special "gathering of the select ones" - the true meaning of Ekklesia. Then Israel entered and conquered Canaan and it is sadly reported after this that "every man went to his house ...". But God saw this coming. He is never taken by surprise. And so He ordained seven Feasts, each connected to the harvest and which commanded Israel again to a gather "at that place He chose to put His Name". And then came that dreary day when Israel was "scattered" among the Nations. God then invested His All - His Son Jesus, to create a heavenly gathering on earth by a heavenly birth and a heavenly nature. THE "gathering of the select ones" was glorious and "they gathered from house to House to break bread". But alas, these select ones found every reason NOT to GATHER - from doctrine to widows' portions they found reasons to be divided - the OPPOSITE of "Gathering". And in their conceit they hatch the word DENOMINATIONS - another word for DIVISIONS! And what do we have today? According to "Quora" on the Internet, Indianapolis in the US of A has over 3,000 Assemblies. What will Jehovah make of this in the day of retribution? Did He not make a Promise that whosoever marred His Assembly, He would mar (1st Cor.3:16-17)? Pastor, did you remember, when you took half the congregation away because of a doctrine, that God called ANY Division "FLESHLY"? Did you notice that in 1st Corinthians 1:10-13 that even those who divided because they were FOR CHRIST are in the rebuke. Maybe you are right. Maybe the sisters who don't wear head covering are an eyesore. Maybe half the congregation object to full immersion and another half won't support you financially - all important things. But who is the man who DIVIDES what the Lord has GATHERED? Yes, sins of leavenous nature must be dealt with. The adulterous and the incestuous must go. The practicing homosexual and the man who will not work must be separated until they repent. But to make another DENOMINATION is certainly not the way to go. Have you ever realized that scattering is a sign of God's judgement. Babel and Israel ended in scattering. And now Indianapolis has 3,000 Assemblies. Where will I find the Assembly at Indianapolis?

Maybe a reason is that man can have HOPE. Things looked pretty bleak for Adam and Eve, especially when they saw the body of Abel and knew that death was final. Things looked pretty bleak for millions of men, women and children as the heavens opened at Noah's time. Things look bleak for mankind in general and Israel in particular. Paul spends three Chapters of Romans on Israel's recovery because everybody know that they have shunned faith in Messiah and God has CONCLUDED them in unbelief. Romans 11:24 onward better be right. Abraham is faithful because in just a few sentences he learns that he will inherit Canaan for an "everlasting possession" but will die. How is that possible? Up to then there was no word of resurrection! And this brings us to the essence of prophecy - God's HONOR. He has made some astounding promises. Prophecy has been correctly, accurately and literally fulfilled up to now, so even the most fainthearted of us has got good reason to believe that sin and death will not always abide - not to forget God's just vengeance.

Exactly! When God put Adam in the Garden of Fellowship ti had no walls or a fence. Adam was given the duty to make it a holy Garden where a holy God could meet with a man in His image and likeness. He was commanded to "dress and keep it". The Serpent needed to be cast out and every thing that came in needed to be tested. The Tabernacle of the Wilderness was the Tent of "Congregation" - a place that would honor God's holiness and only allow in that which was holy. New Jerusalem is the consummate Tabernacle. It has walls and gates - one to stop entry of profane things and the other to let in that which God approves.

I understand that the materials were already there. In Eden was Gold, Bdellium, precious stones (onyx) and the Trees headed by the Tree of Life - that is, wood. In 1st Corinthians 3 we have gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, and stubble. The Bdellium is replaced by "Silver" - the atoning work of Christ since he was sold to death for 30 pieces of silver. In New Jerusalem we gold, Pearl and precious stones. The atoning work of Christ is not forgotten but because all men are in resurrection, the silver is replaced by Pearl. Bdellium is a Pearl from a Tree. But after sin, the animal life for the shedding of blood is needed. Thus, the Pearl is from the animal life, in the sea (the nations), but which is layers of life-secretion over an injury. Wood is humanity. Our Lord was a Carpenter. His humanity is depicted by Acacia wood. Ours is hay and stubble. The precious stones depict the sanctification of a man by the Holy Spirit. A tree is felled and falls to the ground. Soon he is covered by earth. Secret waters flow over him washing out the old elements and washing new ones in. Pressure is added and after a long while, coal is produced. But coal is only good for burning. So the huge amounts of heat and pressure of a volcano are applied. The result - Precious Stones of great value. That ends as the walls of New Jerusalem - transformed Christians. This process is called PETRIFICATION from Peter. It is done in silence and secret away from the Church in your everyday life. It takes along time. Maybe, even after you are diamond, you need to be cut and chiseled for your rare beauty to emerge. Your place is in God's House, but you are also carried by the High Priest on His breast near His heart of love. Six onyx stones complete the picture. On each shoulder (indicating strength) of the High Priest - you are carried - and all this when He goes into the Holy of Holies. You are loved and born up on the shoulders of our Great High Priest. Gold is the nature of God. Your work in the church must be with Gold, silver and precious stones. They will be tested by fire. If you build with humanity, do it only with Christ's humanity. How can the "letters that killeth" replace the true materials - all embodied in Christ - as you alluded to. (Credit for illustration to Beroa Verlag, Zürich)

Worse than that. They were replacing the Holy Spirit with the Law. 2nd Corinthians Chapter 3 deals with that. Is a man sanctified by his efforts in the Law, or is sanctification by the power of the Holy Spirit. The modern Church has all but excluded the Holy Spirit from everything. The Nicolaitan system is just the beginning of this.

For the fulfillment of His plan, God needs Israel. Even if it were only a matter of honoring His Covenant with Abraham and his seed, God needs Abraham and his seed in the Good Land. Your posting alludes to how God fulfills His need. The history shows an unsatisfactory ending SO FAR. After His Covenant with Abraham, Abraham remained a "sojourner". So also Isaac. Jacob even left the Land for about 21 years to work for Laban. And then he spent his closing years in Egypt. Four generations lived and died OUTSIDE the Good Land and shows His displeasure at the generation that died in the wilderness in Hebrews Chapter 3. Chapter 4 of Hebrews outlines the failure of the generation that went in, for thier generations did not even occupy the Land for 1,000 years - a "day" for God as He calls it His REST (alluding to a Sabbath). Again, at Cyrus' command to free Judah after 70 years captivity, only 2.5% of the Jews retunred for God's heart's desire to have a Land and a Temple. 97.5% stayed in Babylon. Te book of Esther deals with them and God never once identifies Himself with them (excpt to faithfully save them from the Amalekite who they failed to exterminate. The 2.5% who returned built the Temple that was needed for Christ to fulfill the Law, but in the 400 years they had to wait for Messiah, they descended into crisis. When our Lord came, Judah was beset with foreign government, sickness, poverty, and demon possession. In 70 AD Judah was defeated and dispersed till 1948. Accurate numbers are hard to get, but the present day Jewish State, declared by the Heathen, has about 8 million Jews. The other 7-8 million still refuse to return. So the question posed by the Thread is very valid. But which prophecy do we turn to for 1948? The answer is at once easy and difficult. In His Covenant with Abraham, God PROMISED Canaan for "an EVERLASTING POSSESSION". The infidel at once gloats and points out, very correctly, that this prophecy cannot be fulfilled because MEN DIE. Since Abraham, Canaan and the remaindr of the inhabited earth is full of the bones of the seed of Abraham - not to mention Abraham and six generations who fell in Egypt and never even possessed the Good Land. So, the precise student of scripture cannot say that God has fulfilled His Promises, but the same student has Ezekiel 37 which promises BOTH the resurrection of all seed of Abraham, the uniting of Northern and Southern Kingdoms AND their gathering to Canaan. But it is future for two reasons; 1. The great test for prophecy is history. Even prophecy that uses symbolism must have a literal fulfillment SOMETIME. And never, in recorded history has Ezekiel 37 come near to being fulfilled 2. The Kingdom of Israel is bound to the King's House. David will raised and made king over Israel (Jer.30:9). And Act 15:14-16 says that this only happens when God has FINISHED THE CHURCH But there is another prophecy that needs Israel, Jerusalem and its Temple. That of Daniel 9 and 2nd Thessalonians 2. In both these Chapters a Physical Temple is needed. Not only will the predicted Beast need a Holy Place to occupy, but the Covenant that this Roman Prince makes with Israel is the Covenant that contains the daily oblation. And the daily oblation need a Temple with its altar. And surely this is verified by the grand sign of the end of this age - The Fig Tree's LEAVES (Matt.24). From Adam we know that leaves are a "covering" - a "Garment". And Revelation 19:7-8 says that the garment is our works. If Judah is the Fig Tree, what will its works be? Why, the Law of Moses - the same Law that contains the daily oblation. Our usual answer to the question that the Title of the Thread poses, is that God is not in any prophecy about present day Israel. But if one looks at what is written above, we must say that God is in EVERY MOVE concerning Israel today. We just can't see the end unfolding out of the present.

The scriptures used from Galatians can be used in a wide application, so no complaint there. But the building going on in 1st Corinthians is different to the building going on in Galatians. Both were hindered by the flesh, but the Corinthians were overcome by the flesh while the Galatians wanted to use the Law (which addresses the flesh) for personal sanctification. God cannot wink at sin or the flesh. He has ordained each man's personal cross for the flesh, but Galatians hides a deep personal affront to God and His Christ. Corinthians shines light on the effects of the flesh on the building of God's House. God showed His displeasure when the work on the Second Temple stopped, but nobody got killed. Galatians says, in effect, we need Christ as the Spirit for rebirth, but He is not needed in the process of sanctification BECAUSE we can do it better by applying the Law! The Father is generous with those overcome by the flesh - like David. God shows another face when we touch Him and His Son's work - like Uzah.

I'm glad you addressed this. Basically, you and @Vine Abider have addressed tw0 different appreciations of what constitutes "our efforts". Both are correct. 1. In Matthew 16 the Lord said that HE would build His Church. 2. In Matthew 7 our Lord said that EVERYONE is building - some on sand and some on rock 3. In 1st Corinthians 3 Paul was a Master BUILDER and we should follow for EVERY MAN'S WORK will be tested 4. In 1st Corinthians 12:6 in regard to the inspired, "God is all in all" 5. In Ephesians 4 it is Christ Who supplies the individual and the individual supplies the Body Corporate The discussion can be endless, but we can cut it short by pointing out that; 1. Every man will be called to reckoning how he built 2. Every man who builds illegally (without orders) will suffer loss (Matthew 7) 3. Every man who builds wit the flesh (wood hay and stubble) will suffer chastisement 4. Every man who builds without inspiration will see his building fall to the anger of God 5. Every man's efforts must be coupled with an intimate and obedient walk with the Head - Christ

The first thing that the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil caused was to open the yes of Adam and Eve to their nakedness. They hurried to cover it. This provoked the second thing - an apron of Fig Leaves. If we interpret scripture with scripture, the Fig Tree stands for two things: 1. In Judges 9 it has fruit that is sweet, but unlike the Olive and the Vine, God is not connected to it. Mention of Him associated with the Fig Tree is glaringly missing. 2. Our Lord, in line with the prophets, calls Israel a Vine but the Northern Tribes were deported and the Vine hewn down. What was left was Judah and the small remnant who returned from Babylon are called a Fig Tree by our Lord Jesus. This time, Leaves are in view and fruit is absent. And far from being sweet, it is fruitless and thus cursed by our Lord. Now, the leaves of a Tree are its "Covering" or "Garment" and a Garment in Revelation 19:7-8 are ones WORKS. And Judah's special works were the Law. The only sign given the Church of the closeness of our Lord's Apocalypse is the Fig Tree sprouting Leaves. This in turn is found in Daniel 9 when the Beast "strengthens THE Covenant with Israel". The article is implied, so which Covenant is meant? The Covenant of Law - for it is the only Covenant that has the daily oblation. All this connecting of scriptures is to show one thing - fallen man LOVES LAWS! It is the boast for the Jew. "We keep the Law. So we are JUSTIFIED!" And the Church fared no better. Well has our brother Austin Sparks remarked that we are apt to make new laws, so that we may ask; "does your Church allow chewing gum ... ?". There are ∓613 laws from Moses. There are over 2,400 instructions in the New Testament. But this is not enough! "We want Laws! We want Laws! Pastor ... give us Laws!" "We love the knowledge of Good and Evil!" But the Voice of Jehovah thunders from heaven. "NOT MOSES ....", but My beloved Son ... HEAR HIM! Three great dangers face the Believer; (i) The flesh, (ii) the world system, and (iii) the LAW OF MOSES. Or shall we say, The Law of Moses AND SUPPLEMENTS! And those of you that know your Bible well know that the inspired language of Galatians is very hard. In it are damning statements like "I wish they were cut off!" "You are cursed!" "You have fallen from grace!" ... and so on. The Law is sweet. Righteousness in God's demands is good. Our Lord Jesus was the fulfillment of the Offerings. This God commanded. And their fulfillment was a"sweet savor". But the sweetness came from OBEDIENCE. The Offerings do not give God pleasure (Heb.10:6-8). They are a necessary event FOR SIN. They are there to equal out evil works. What God wants is not a modified version of Romans 7. He desires Romans 8 with Christ, His LIFE, His presence in our human spirits, born again in our spirits (Jn.3:6), being children by rebirth, sons by maturing and above all - to be LED by His Spirit in our spirits (Jn.4:24). It is seldom pointed out but the word for "children" in Romans 8 is a different word in the Greek to that for "sons". "Children" show ORIGIN; GENERATION and show who the FATHER is. The Greek for "sons" addresses THE MATURE WHO INHERIT. Children know WHAT their father does. Sons know WHY their father does what he does. The law is Hagar. Out with the bondwoman! 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. (2 Co 3:16–18).

@Mr. M "Receiving The Holy Spirit Is Not The Same As Indwelling" Instead of scrutinizing every statement, I would like to give my understanding of the matter. I judge the matter to be quite simple, but profound in its workings in the human. From direct and indirect scriptures, we learn that God made man a Tripartite being. Genesis 2 and 1st Thessalonians 5:23 state clearly that man is made of Body, spirit and soul. Contrary to popular belief, Adam spirit did not die when he sinned. First, it does not say so, Second, a spirit cannot die. Third, dam had not ever eaten of the Tree of Life so how could his spirit die if it did not possess life in the first place? The term "born again", or "born from above", or, "born anew" does not introduce a birth to a dead spirit. It introduces an ADDITIONAL and SECOND birth. Nicodemus understood this in John 3. He asked the Lord if he was to get back into his mother's womb for a second birth - having had one before. Or, if we look at the circumstances surrounding Adam, he was made perfect in his HUMANITY. But to be able to be in the image and likeness of God in behaviour, he needed the divine LIFE of God. This would come from th Tree of Life. Man, being the Temple of God, is, like the Temple, made of three parts. The body speaks for the Outer Court, the soul speaks for the Holy Place, and the spirit is the Holy of Holies. When a man is born anew, God comes to dwell in HIS HUMAN SPIRIT (Jn.3:6, 4:24). God never leaves this ABODE. If the believer sins and puts God's holiness in danger, God will kill that man like nearly happened in 1st Corinthians 5. Sexual sins are sins INSIDE the body and can defile the spirit. the gospel of John is dedicated to getting the Spirit of God and His Nature INTO a man (Jn.20:30-31). But the fall of man seriously polluted the man's BODY (Gen.6:3) and the soul is warred on by the flesh to comply with its illegal desires. The result is Genesis 6:5. The thought process and the will are parts of the SOUL. When a man becomes born again, a war starts between the spirit and the body (Gal.4:29, 5:17). The Spirit of God in our human spirit makes demands. The flesh screams its demands. The soul is caight in the middle. The young Christian usually panders to the flesh so he/she seems to be losing the battle. But, as maturuty sets in with a certain amount of suffering and chastisement, the mature Christian starts to win. The TRANSFORMATION of the soul is a long painful business. Key ingredients in this process is self -denial and fiery trials. Now, this ENTRY of God to DWELL in a man occurred on resurrection day when Christ breathed the Holy Spirit INTO His disciples. But the Christian is not only given the LIFE of God INWARDLY, but for his duties which can range from casting out a demon to teaching in the Church, HE NEEDS POWER. So, our Lord's last instructions to the disciples was to wait in Jerusalem for the Spirit to come UPON them for POWER (Lk.24:49, Act.1:8). This Spirit of POWER is OUTWARD. The Greek word "filled with the Spirit" actually means "FURNISHED" with the Spirit. It is this Spirit (the same Holy Spirit) that moved on the waters of a chaotic earth, which was UPON the prophets to inspire them, which was on Baalam's donkey to make him speak human language. Jesus, having been BORN by the Holy Spirit (Lk.1:35) possessed God's LIFE from conception, but received POWER for ministry after His Water Immersion (Lk.4:14, Act.2:38). This TWOFOLD giving of the same Holy Spirit generates TWO SETS of scriptures. Theologians like fancy terms. They call the INWARD Spirit the "ESSENTIAL" Spirit because through His INDWELLING your natural ESSENCE is changed. They call the OUTWARD Spirit for POWER the "economical" Spirit. This word comes from the Greek word "oikonomia" which is God's way of dealing with His creature, or His "Economy". So, truly, a difference is made in scripture between the INWARD IN-DWELLING Holy Spirit and this SAME Spirit when He is your OUTWARD POWER for ministry.

I respect your studies and I respect your decision to reject current majority explanations. You have seen my style. If you browse back you will see that I followed the wording, grammar and logical implications. I have been studying the Bible since summer 1982 and I find no reason to change that style. It is clear that I will reach a different conclusion to you. Prophecy is there to transfer information about events and the test is history (Deut.18:22). Daniel predicts the future for the following gentile Empires and is written in their language of the day - Aramaic. Daniel also predicts the future of "Daniel's People" and some events have no record in history. They are written in Hebrew and because the Book is sealed, they will remain a mystery until God reveals. I have enjoyed the exchange of ideas we have had, but am not prepared to deviate from the first line of grammar and the prohibition in 2nd Peter 1:20. There is much "Symbolism" in prophecy, but the fulfillment is always a coherent and literal fulfillment. I know that I have much to still learn, but Daniel, the way the majority of scholars since the Reformation, and especially the last 200 years, have explained it, is my choice (with small changes which every student has). I think men like G.H. Pember and Sir Robert Anderson, were faithful to what was written. If my God has clouded the issue and those who stuck to the wording and grammar are blinded, I bow to that as well. If the Bible says "Thou shalt not murder", I take it like that, precisely. I find no "symbolic meaning" and will not apply any allegory to so plain a statement. If the scriptures under study are obscure, I interpret using only the Bible and nature (2nd Pet.1.20, Rom.1:18-22). May we both arrive at that great and fateful day having seen what Jehovah wanted us to see. And may Jehovah bless your efforts.