The Rapture Propaganda Of The 70's-80's A Theif In The Night Series

[truth7t7]

57 minutes ago, The Light said:

Hey 7t7,

A few weeks ago, when we were going back and forth, I asked you a question about where in Revelation is the Church raptured. You answered and then said where is the pretrib rapture in scripture, it doesn't exist. When you answered, several times, I didn't understand your answer. I thought you were not giving me an answer, therefore I did not feel compelled to answer your question. Anyway, I apologize for not understanding that you were answering. Secondly, kudos to you. When someone mentioned that it was getting a little rough, you understood completely what was going on and took no offense. That's good stuff brother as I was not offended either. Now to answer your question. Here is the early summer, 1st harvest, secret pretribulation rapture in scripture.

Song of Solomon 2

8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.

Thanks for the response, I disagree, song of solomon ou present dosent even hint at a pre-trib rapture of the Church to heaven

Jesus Is The Lord

[Montana Marv]

19 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

As stated sever times, a pre-trib rapture dosent exist in scripture, feel free to post your scriptural claims, waiting?

None of the Rapture times or positions exist in Scripture.  None, not Pre Trib, not Mid Trib, not Pre Wrath, and not Post Trib.  I choose Pre Trib because this timing is Impossible to Calculate.  It will come at an unknown time which only God the Father knows.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

None of the Rapture times or positions exist in Scripture.  None, not Pre Trib, not Mid Trib, not Pre Wrath, and not Post Trib.  I choose Pre Trib because this timing is Impossible to Calculate.  It will come at an unknown time which only God the Father knows.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Scripture clearly teaches the event of "Catching Up" takes place at the return of Jesus Christ, you can put whatever time you want on it, it's very clear in the scripture

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17KJV

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Edited January 19, 2022 by truth7t7

[The Light]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

And yet Jesus quite plainly stated the disciples would be handed over to tribulation. 

Matthew 24:4-14
And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you. For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many. You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name. At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come."

Jesus is talking about what will happen at the end of the age. He is talking to the Jews that will be alive during the tribulation of those days.

The Church will escape ALL THESE THINGS that will come to pass. The Church will be GONE before the seals are opened. 

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

• A bunch of bad stuff happens like wars, famines, and earthquakes. 
• Then the disciples are delivered to tribulation.
• While all that's going on false prophets and lawlessness will exist. 

These are things that happen at the end of the age. These are the things that happen during the seals.

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

truth7t7 is correct: the pre-tribulation rapture does NOT exist in scripture. The choice to believe pre-trib because the timing is impossible to predict runs into blunt conflict with what is plainly stated in scripture. It is also contrary to those pre-trib eschatological views that assert various milestones or "signs" preceding the trub (such as a new temple, a restored nation-state, a new monarchy, the return of animal sacrifices, etc.). 

The pretribulation rapture is all over the scriptures. There is a reason that Noah was in the ark 7 days before the flood. And yet many don't think Jesus is coming back for His Church until after the wrath of God. Despite the warning that the wise virgins heed.  Matt 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

I can assure you. Jesus will keep His word and come in such an hour as you think not.

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

 

Romans 5:1-5
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.  And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

 

The Church is currently in their tribulation period. At the rapture of the Church, the fullness of the Gentiles will come in and then part of the Jews will have their eyes opened during the 70th week of Daniel. The Church is gone before the 70th week of Daniel happens. We are gone before the tribulation of those days. We are told to watch and be ready?

Do you understand what you are supposed to be watching for? What are you watching for?

 

[Montana Marv]

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Scripture clearly teaches the event of "Catching Up" takes place at the return of Jesus Christ, you can put whatever time you want on it, it's very clear in the scripture

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17KJV

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

No time is given in these Scriptures.  They refer to how the process will happen.  You have put these verses at the 2nd Coming.  It is not there.  Jesus Christ is the Word, He is Scripture, and He, Jesus Christ, the Word, Scripture states that only God the Father knows the timing of the Rapture.  Don't look for it in the Scriptures, IT is not there.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Montana Marv]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

And yet Jesus quite plainly stated the disciples would be handed over to tribulation. 

Matthew 24:4-14
And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you. For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many. You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name. At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come."

• A bunch of bad stuff happens like wars, famines, and earthquakes. 
• Then the disciples are delivered to tribulation.
• While all that's going on false prophets and lawlessness will exist. 

truth7t7 is correct: the pre-tribulation rapture does NOT exist in scripture. The choice to believe pre-trib because the timing is impossible to predict runs into blunt conflict with what is plainly stated in scripture. It is also contrary to those pre-trib eschatological views that assert various milestones or "signs" preceding the trub (such as a new temple, a restored nation-state, a new monarchy, the return of animal sacrifices, etc.). 

 

Romans 5:1-5
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God.  And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

 

First of all, His audience was the Disciples, not the Apostles.  The mystery of the Church, Bride of Christ, the Gentiles being invited in, was not revealed until after His ascending on high.

Most of Matt 24 is for Israel, not the Church.

Mid-Trib, Pre-Wrath and Post-Trib positions are not in Scripture.

The truth is Israel, the Levites are prepared to begin animal sacrifices.  They are already prepared.  Where is the location of these sacrifices (the New Temple).  What are they waiting for?  The unblemished Red Heifer to sacrifice outside the city.  When a new Temple is dedicated, the Red Heifer must precede it.

The only real sign given us in Scripture is;  As in the days of Noah, there was eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage until Noah entered the Ark. We are there/here NOW.  Will be no marrying or given in marriage as a routine during final Week.  So guess what. A Pre trib Rapture will happen.  We just don't know how late in the season the Bridegroom will come.  Soon after the Bride is complete (the mystery of Jews and Gentiles together in one body), she is snatched away.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[truth7t7]

35 minutes ago, The Light said:

Jesus is talking about what will happen at the end of the age. He is talking to the Jews that will be alive during the tribulation of those days.

The Church will escape ALL THESE THINGS that will come to pass. The Church will be GONE before the seals are opened. 

These are things that happen at the end of the age. These are the things that happen during the seals.

The pretribulation rapture is all over the scriptures. There is a reason that Noah was in the ark 7 days before the flood. And yet many don't think Jesus is coming back for His Church until after the wrath of God. Despite the warning that the wise virgins heed.  Matt 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

I can assure you. Jesus will keep His word and come in such an hour as you think not.

The Church is currently in their tribulation period. At the rapture of the Church, the fullness of the Gentiles will come in and then part of the Jews will have their eyes opened during the 70th week of Daniel. The Church is gone before the 70th week of Daniel happens. We are gone before the tribulation of those days. We are told to watch and be ready?

Do you understand what you are supposed to be watching for? What are you watching for?

 

You continue to claim the church is gone, suggesting a pre-trib rapture found no place in scripture

Just because you claim it over and over again doesn't make it a reality

A Pre-trib rapture of the Church to heaven dosent exist in scripture, nowhere

Edited January 20, 2022 by truth7t7

[The Light]

17 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

You continue to claim the church is gone, suggesting a pre-trib rapture found no place in scripture

Just because you claim it over and over again doesn't make it a reality

A Pre-trib rapture of the Church to heaven dosent exist in scripture, nowhere

It's every where. You just are unable to put the pieces together. The Church is already gone before the seals are opened. The seals occur during the 70th week of Daniel. The 70th week of Daniel is about the Jews.

Dan 9

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The fig tree has two harvests. There are two harvest feasts. Jacob had two brides even as there will be two raptures. The fact that you don't understand these things, does not change the truth.

[The Light]

23 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

First of all, His audience was the Disciples, not the Apostles.  The mystery of the Church, Bride of Christ, the Gentiles being invited in, was not revealed until after His ascending on high.

Most of Matt 24 is for Israel, not the Church.

Agreed

23 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

Mid-Trib, Pre-Wrath and Post-Trib positions are not in Scripture.

The truth is Israel, the Levites are prepared to begin animal sacrifices.  They are already prepared.  Where is the location of these sacrifices (the New Temple).  What are they waiting for?  The unblemished Red Heifer to sacrifice outside the city.  When a new Temple is dedicated, the Red Heifer must precede it.

The only real sign given us in Scripture is;  As in the days of Noah, there was eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage until Noah entered the Ark. We are there/here NOW.  Will be no marrying or given in marriage as a routine during final Week.  So guess what. A Pre trib Rapture will happen.  We just don't know how late in the season the Bridegroom will come.  Soon after the Bride is complete (the mystery of Jews and Gentiles together in one body), she is snatched away.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

There will be two raptures, one for the Church when it will be like the days of Noah, as Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. A second rapture at the 6th seal for the 12 tribes across the earth...the seed of the woman.

We know there is a rapture immediately after the tribulation.

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Two raptures, one when it will be like the days of Noah where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. One when it will be like the days of Lot where the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came.

One at the trump of God or voice of God and one at the last trump which is blown on the feast of trumpets.

The fig tree has two harvests. Jacob had two brides, Leah and his chosen bride Rachel. Israel has two harvest feasts. An early summer grain harvest celebrated on the Feast of Pentecost and a fall fruit harvest celebrated on the Feast of Trumpets. 

There is a reason for these things.

[The Light]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

Hogwash. 

• He is speaking to his disciples. 
• He is speaking to the disciples about the disciples. 
• He is not speaking to the disciples about "the Jews". 

He plainly states, "YOU will be delivered to tribulation." Jews are not mentioned anywhere in Matthew 24. Nowhere. Get out your Bible and read the chapter yourself to verify what I just posted. 

• Read it as written. 
• Accept it as written.
• Believe it as written. 

Suspect anyone and everyone who makes scripture say things it does not actually stated. Be as critical of what they claim as you are of my claims. 

Total and complete poppycock.

Let's take this verse

Matthew 24

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Are you telling me that you think that the great tribulation has happened? There will never be such tribulation as has already happened? If  you think that, you are certainly in error.

Matthew 24

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Did the Lord return already in the time of the early disciples? Not hardly.

The things that Jesus talks about in Matthew 24 have not happened, none of it. Matthew 24 is about the end of the age. The first six seals are what is being discussed, starting with false Christs and ending with the return of Jesus at the 6th seal. He may have been talking to the disciples, but the message is for those Jews on earth during the great tribulation and the end of the age.