Jake for Jesus Posted September 13, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 111 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/10/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 13, 2005 (edited) shiloh357 wrote: So demonstrating where I am wrong is a waste of your time? My Response: In your case, I am convinced it absolutely would be. However, I am sure you will be able to find someone to play the "Yes, I'm right!" and "No, your wrong!" thing who doesn't have any thing better to do with their time. Only, I'm not one of them. I am convinced that you aren't wanting to learn any thing because you know every thing. At least I am convinced that you think you do. Any ways, I have now lost interest and have stopped listening. Edited September 13, 2005 by Jake for Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt Posted September 13, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 95 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/13/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 13, 2005 Many of the LAWS in the old testament, if broken, were punishable by death. In the new testament we are called to be born-again and just the old nature of sin is put to death! Hallelujah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipit Posted September 13, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 247 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/17/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/10/1981 Share Posted September 13, 2005 I am not sure if I should be amused or saddened at this conversation. The irony of some of the comments and accusations made towards others, and how they apply just as strongly if not more so to the person making them amusses me. Yet that also saddens me. It saddens me because the person making them has some interesting insight and thoughts regarding God's law, yet as soon as someone dares question or challenge these insights and thoughts, it is as if the person cannot bear having his ideology (or particular parts of it) questioned or proven wrong (and more so, in pointing fingers and making accusations and not providing a defense denying himself of any opportunity to prove it truthful). Jake, if you ever read this, firstly you have a good head on your shoulders, and some interesting insights that are worth discussing, yet it saddens me that you show a lack of maturity when it comes to responding to the challenges of others. Secondly, you yourself should know that having thoughts and ideas challenged provides an opportunity to prove if they are true or false, to test them. No one here is a know it all, and no one here will pretend to be one (because most of us here have had our butts kicked and our thoughts and ideas proven wrong more then once as we seek to ground ourselves in true and strong doctrine, and we all know that what we know falls what short of all that there is to know about God's Word and we still have much to learn). We also accept the fact that people will challenge our doctrinal ideologies, and most of us will graciously and carefully examine those challenges against God's Word. Sadly, it seems you fail to undertake this. Yet we encourage you and challenge you in Christian love to take time to examine what others say, to see if their challanges align themselves with God's truth, just as you take time to challenge your own thoughts and ideas against God's Word to prove it as true or as flawed. This is how we grow and mature in Christ, and how we encourage and spur one another on. As said, Jake you show wisdom, and there are some wonderful insights there that speak much about the Law, and I am confident in saying that you may have much wisdom on other things as well. Yet I encourage you to take time to examine both what you are saying and what others are replying against God's Word, and to accept the challenges and remarks others make as an opportunity to grow and deepen your understanding of Scripture and God's Truth. And for everyone, take time once in a while to entertain the possibility that what you are saying is wrong... and see if you can prove it wrong. Its one good way of finding out what is truly right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake for Jesus Posted September 13, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 111 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/10/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 13, 2005 (edited) Salt wrote: Many of the LAWS in the old testament, if broken, were punishable by death. In the new testament we are called to be born-again and just the old nature of sin is put to death! Hallelujah! My Response: The Wisest one . . . . That's right! We got a new sheriff in town. And every time we break bread and reach for the communion cup at the Lord's table. I am always reminded that on the Cross Jesus did it all. So what do we do with these grace plus people? Cross plus people? The answer is it doesn't exist! For on the Cross Jesus did it all. Edited September 13, 2005 by Jake for Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 shiloh357 wrote: So demonstrating where I am wrong is a waste of your time? My Response: In your case, I am convinced it absolutely would be. I am sorry you feel that way. I only posted ONE response challenging some things you said, and instead of posting a rebuttal, you simply got offended that someone put forth a substantive challenge. You have taken the thread completely off topic in order to express your angst at what I wrote in ONE post. Evidently, you want your remarks to be unconditionally accepted as truth. However, I am sure you will be able to find someone to play the "Yes, I'm right!" and "No, your wrong!" thing who doesn't have any thing better to do with their time. Only, I'm not one of them. What you are talking about? I posted one response to your initial posts, and so far all you have done is get mad, and claim that responding to my challenge is a waste of time. I am convinced that you aren't wanting to learn any thing because you know every thing. Sounds like you are suffering from wounded pride. You jumped on here and thought you were going to straighten us Messianic/Christians Zionists out and explain to us poor dumb sheep why we have it all wrong. You don't care for people who can actually respond with a substantive response that demonstrates that they may have thought things out more than you had originally anticipated. Kinda puts a wrench in the works, doesn't it? At least I am convinced that you think you do. Any ways, I have now lost interest and have stopped listening. You're a smart guy. I am sorry that you allowed your pride to get the best of you. I can only hope and pray that you come to see such does not reflect Christian maturity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake for Jesus Posted September 13, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 111 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/10/2005 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 13, 2005 (edited) shiloh357 wrote: You're a smart guy. My Response: Smart enough to be you on my ignore list after making this post for that's just where you are going to be I can sure tell you that. Edited September 13, 2005 by Jake for Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SuziQ Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Perhaps after this discussion if you like we can have another discussion in which we can focus more on the existing problems in Messianic Judasim due to hyper-Messianic extremism that has now led Messianic Judaism into a time of crisis. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This may be off your original topic, but it is also a pretty broad and sweeping generalization concerning a great, prophetic movement of G-d. No, we aren't perfect, and yes, we have our problems of which we are all painfully aware, but these issues that you speak of effect a small minority of people within the larger movement, AND their "extremism" as you've put it is not sanctioned by either the MJAA or the UMJC. To describe us as being in a "time of crisis" as a result is an exaggeration I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahsway Posted September 13, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 657 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/15/1959 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Jake, where did God say He would put His laws after His Son came? He said he would put them on our mind and write them in our hearts, right? What did Yeshua say about those who taught men that they did not have to follow even the least of the commandments? That they would be called least in the kingdom, right? What did Yeshua say about destroying the law? He said he did not come to destroy or do away with the law and the prophets, right? What is Sin? Sin is transgression of Gods law, right? And even if you break just one of Gods laws you are a sinner, right? What did Yeshua accomplish on the cross? Did He pay the penalty that we deserve to pay for breaking the commandments? Yes He did. He paid the price for us, but did He do away with the law? Not so. For if there is no law, then there is no sin, right? And if there is no law, there is nothing to point people to Yeshua. Grace and law go hand in hand. You cannot have one without the other. Like it or not, Yahweh God is a conditional God. All thru scripture you can find words like "If" my people, who are called by My name, humble themselves ect.... Yes there are "spiritual" applications, but we are a "physical" people. Gods laws were to be a blessing to His people. So they would know how to live just and right before Him and with their fellow man. The curse of the law, the ordinances if you will, was sin and death. And it is still applicable today. But praise be to Yeshua, He did pay it all. And since He did, He is now my husband and I want to do everything to please Him as i would my earthly husband. Obeidience is better than sacrafice. I will not trample on such a wonderful grace given to me. So for me personally, The Law and the Grace go hand in hand. The law is His teachings and instructions. As Paul told Timothy the Torah was good for instruction, doctrine, reproof, rebuke and he was certainly speaking of the Old Test. scriptures as there was no New Test scriptures at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Yahsway and SuziQ: Well said!! to both of you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 shiloh357 wrote: You're a smart guy. My Response: Smart enough to be you on my ignore list after making this post for that's just where you are going to be I can sure tell you that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> so you are going to take the ball and run home?? nyah, nyah, nyah, nah, nah to you too then. This is so childish. Here is a praphrased proverb from the New Testament for you. The spirit of prophecy is subject to the prophets If you can't handle scrutiny from the members of this forum then it will be you who is ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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