CarolineS Posted October 6, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 414 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 6, 2005 yomotalking, You are correct. God has mercy on children and those who do not have the mental capacity to understand. He is not going to punish infants and the mentally handicapped. What sort of God would do that? However, those who have the mental capacity to understand the gospel and have been exposed to it and have the opportunity to make a choice either for or against Christ will be held accountable. Didn't Jesus go to the temple when he was about 12 yrs. old and read scripture? Don't the Jewish people have a Bar Mitzvah for a child when they reach age 12 or 13? I think it means they have passed from being a child to being accountable. But I am not Jewish, so I am not sure. I believe there is an age we reach when we are held accountable, but I am not sure what it is as scripture doesn't say exactly. I would guess between 12 and 20 yrs. old. In Christ, CarolineS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted October 6, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted October 6, 2005 God has mercy on the helplessly ignorant. You think God on Judgement Day, is going to condemn a tiny baby, for not having the chance to repent from their......er........... (not having a chance to commit any)sin? Hmmmm.......riiiiiiight. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah I totally agree, but what does that have to do with the age of accountability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazingrace Posted October 6, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 340 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/06/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 6, 2005 <Numbers 14:29> "The carcasses of you who have complained against Me shall fall in this wilderness, all of you who were numbered, according to your entire number, from twenty years old and above." <Numbers 14:31> "But your little ones, whom you said would be victims, I will bring in, and they shall know the land which you have despised." The 20 years old and above is not about accountablity, it refers to those numbered for war: Numbers 1:2-3 Take a census of all the congregation of the children of Israel, by their families, by their father' houses, according to the number of names, every male individually, from twenty years old and above--all who are able to go to war in Isreal. You and Aaron shall number them by their armies. Census of eleven tribes were taken in this manner. But none of the Levites were included in this census: Numbers 1:49 Only the tribe of Levi you shall not number, nor take a census of them among the children of Israel. The Levites were counted in a separate census from the age of one month: Numbers 3:15 Number the children of Levi by their fathers' houses, by their families; you shall number every male from a month old and above. Now, when the Jews were afraid to enter the Promised Land as conquering warriors and, as a consequence had to wander in the desert for 40 years, the Levites were not included in that judgement (because they were exempt from the census for war) Numbers 14:29 The carcasses of you who have complained against Me shall fall in this wilderness, all of you who where numbered, according to your entire number, from twenty years old and above. So you see, the twenty years and above is not about accountability... its about being able to go to war. But as far as accountabilty goes, I am inclined to think it is not a set age, but rather that it is different for each individual. Consider God's last words to Jonah: Jonah 4:11 And should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which are more than one hundred and twenty thousand persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left--and much livestock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazingrace Posted October 6, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 340 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/06/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 6, 2005 the age of "account"ability, is JUST THAT--- an age, in which God knows an individual will be held ACCOUNTABLE---based on knowledge----not based on position. the position---of an infant---is DEATH. they are still---BORN INTO ADAMIC SIN which is the MAIN REASON--why we should be fighting abortion.. WE should WANT---our children to have the chance and acknowledge----they are a sinner so they can repent... the position, of an infant, is such they dont have the capacity to REPENT--- which is absolutely necessary---for the atonement of Jesus to wash their adamic sin away.... ALL---sin must be atoned for-- the book of leviticus covers NOTHING BUT SINS OF IGNORANCE! we must confess Jesus Christ as Lord, to be saved, and believe God raised him from the dead---in order to be JUSTIFIED... sancitified---is NOT enough. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mark, I am very glad that is only your opinion, and not God's. Just as David expressed his certainty of seeing his infant son again, I have every hope of being reunited with my children. II Samuel 12:22 "But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted October 6, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Christ Himself said that children are saved. In fact He said if we want to see heaven we better have the faith of children. I have no doubt that infants and the unborn who die are with Christ, the very nature of Christ as revealed shows a God of mercy which triumphs over judgement. There will be no tears or sadness in heaven, our children who are gone are alive and with Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted October 6, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 21 Topic Count: 129 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,801 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 483 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted October 6, 2005 the age of "account"ability, is JUST THAT--- an age, in which God knows an individual will be held ACCOUNTABLE---based on knowledge----not based on position. the position---of an infant---is DEATH. they are still---BORN INTO ADAMIC SIN which is the MAIN REASON--why we should be fighting abortion.. WE should WANT---our children to have the chance and acknowledge----they are a sinner so they can repent... the position, of an infant, is such they dont have the capacity to REPENT--- which is absolutely necessary---for the atonement of Jesus to wash their adamic sin away.... ALL---sin must be atoned for-- the book of leviticus covers NOTHING BUT SINS OF IGNORANCE! we must confess Jesus Christ as Lord, to be saved, and believe God raised him from the dead---in order to be JUSTIFIED... sancitified---is NOT enough. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mark, I am very glad that is only your opinion, and not God's. Just as David expressed his certainty of seeing his infant son again, I have every hope of being reunited with my children. II Samuel 12:22 "But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> exactly, amazinggrace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted October 6, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted October 6, 2005 You know, we are all treading on sensitive ground here. In 1999 My wife and I lost our first and only son (up to that point) to anencephaly. There has not ben a single day that goes by that I have not thought about my son, David. That was almost 7 years ago. Now we are expecting our second son, whom we will name Daniel, but David will always be in our hearts. To lose a child is devastating; it simply cannot be overstated. However, we need to understand that although some very personal feelings are involved here, we simply cannot let those feelings dictate God's actions. In other words, we cannot place God in the position of being something He is not because of our personal feelings or inclinations. I struggled with this immensely, and still do to a certain degree. The Bible simply is not abundantly clear concerning what happens to children that pass on prematurely. We just ned to learn to accept that fact, and hope that one day we will see those that we have loved once again. God is not unrighteous because He does not conform to our perceptions of how things should be. He is not righteous because we think He is a certain way. God is righteous despite what we think, and He is holy outside our understanding of holiness. Even though we would like to know some things for certain, there are simply things that are not meant for us to know. As Paul once wrote, ".We know in part and we prophesy in part," and, "... we see in a mirror (or through glass) obscurely." In other words, our information is limited. Therefore, is it not safer simply to respond to such issues with a simple, "I don't know"? I think the words, "I don't know" are some of the hardest for believers to utter, because we want to know, and we want to have the assurance of knowing. However, in some situations there just is not assurance of knowing for certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aim_64bIT Posted October 6, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 88 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted October 6, 2005 The word is very clear on the subject of baptismal regeneration and baptism of infants. 2 Samuel 12:23 KJV (23) But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. John 1:9 KJV (9) That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. Matthew 19:14 KJV (14) But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven. They are both wholly unbiblical. Tradition of men. Mark 7:8-9 KJV (8) For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. (9) And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted October 6, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Ah...was there a comment on baptism here somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted October 6, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted October 6, 2005 You know, we are all treading on sensitive ground here. In 1999 My wife and I lost our first and only son (up to that point) to anencephaly. There has not ben a single day that goes by that I have not thought about my son, David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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