Christ will appear a second time !!!

[ruah brit]

These scriptures are talking about the same event.

Ac 1

11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

Matthew 13

40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,

42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Matthew 13

49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just,

50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

51 Jesus said to them, "Have you understood all these things?" They said to Him, "Yes, Lord."

Denise

Edited October 3, 2005 by ruah brit

[Trinity]

Jesus apeared to Paul-(saul) without it being the second coming, why couldn't he appear like he did unto Paul to rapture us before the trib?

[ruah brit]

Jesus apeared to Paul-(saul) without it being the second coming, why couldn't he appear like he did unto Paul to rapture us before the trib?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because it would be in the scriptures and it is not.

Denise

[Guest runlikethewind14]

This is found in Hebrews 9:28

"So Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time for salvation, without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him."

Sounds like He is coming to receive us to Himself.

He's already dealt with our sins on the cross.

When He comes in Revelation 19, verse 11, He comes to Judge the nations and wage war, so that's not the same coming as described in Hebrews.

Question is , when do these two comings (one is a coming, and one is an appearing ) take place ? If the catching up is at the end of tribulation, the two comings are at the same time.

Opinions ??

The comings are not the same ones...the first is the Rapture (to gather up the Christians), and the 2nd is 7 yrs later...after the Rapture (to judge the nations) If you're asking when they happen? the Bible says that only God knows...not even Jesus Himself. (and there IS a difference between coming and appearing. Appearing means His feet won't touch the ground. As for coming...i don't know if he will remain in the air or not.)

Runlikethewind14

[Franky67]

The comings are not the same ones...the first is the Rapture (to gather up the Christians), and the 2nd is 7 yrs later...after the Rapture (to judge the nations) If you're asking when they happen? the Bible says that only God knows...not even Jesus Himself. (and there IS a difference between coming and appearing. Appearing means His feet won't touch the ground. As for coming...i don't know if he will remain in the air or not.)

Runlikethewind14

That's just the point I was trying to make, that the two comings are not the same event.

Because the reason for His coming at the rapture is to take His church home, not to make war, as is described in Revelation, and not to die for our sins, as the Gospels describe.

One previous post says all the comings are the same ( provides list of scriptures ), the scriptures in Jude mentions Him coming with His Saints, also in Revelation, How could they be the same, when in Hebrews He comes to take back His Saints, and Jude and Revelation, His Saints are already with Him ??? No way the same event !

One other thing, Hebrews says He appears to those who eagerly await Him. When He comes to make war, them folks ain't going to be happy to see Him, and that's when every eye will see Him, including those who pierced Him. No way the same event.

I agree with You, runlikethewind.

[yomotalking]

Franky, Christ will come again for His Church... His Bride... you and I.

Then, after 7 years in heaven we will return with Him at the end of the GT.

The Rapture is what is next on the prophetic calendar and it is not the same as the 2nd Coming. At the Rapture Christ will only be coming for those who are His. It is not the same as the one where "every eye will see Him," which is the 2nd Coming at the end of the GT.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please show scripture that states there is a seven yr. period of time the saints will be in heaven.

CarolineS

The Tribulation is for 7 yrs.

The Rapture is said to last 7 years, so Christians don't have to face the Tribulation.

[Avidan]

This is found in Hebrews 9:28

"So Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time for salvation, without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him."

Sounds like He is coming to receive us to Himself.

He's already dealt with our sins on the cross.

When He comes in Revelation 19, verse 11, He comes to Judge the nations and wage war, so that's not the same coming as described in Hebrews.

Question is , when do these two comings (one is a coming, and one is an appearing ) take place ? If the catching up is at the end of tribulation, the two comings are at the same time.

Opinions ??

His second appearance happened a long time ago.

Late in the evening of that same day, the first day of the week, although the doors of the place where the disciples had gathered were bolted for fear of the authorities, Jesus came and stood before them: "Peace be to you," he said. [John 20:19]

They were in a complete panic, fancying they were seeing a ghost. "Why are you disturbed?" he said to them, "and why do you let doubts come into your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. Surely it is my very self! Feel me, and convince yourselves; no ghost has flesh and bones such as you see I have!" With that, he showed them his hands and his feet.

But they still refused to believe; it was too good to be true, and continued in their perplexity. So he said to them, "Have you something here to eat?" Then they offered him a piece of broiled fish which he accepted and ate before their eyes.

He said to them, "These events are the fulfillment of what I predicted to you when I was still with you, namely that anything ever written concerning me--in the Law of Moses, in the prophets, or in the psalms--must be fulfilled." He then gave them the key to the understanding of the scriptures. "This," he said to them, "is the gist of the scripture: The messiah must suffer, and on the third day rise from the dead. Furthermore: In his name the need of a change of heart and the forgiveness of sins must be preached to all the nations."

[Luke 24:37 - 47]

The next appearance will be seen and heard by the "Bride" of HIS elect.

And I Avidan am going to do whatever I must to get that invitation.

The time of the bridegroom's return is related to the bridal chamber's construction. When the preparations on the bridal chamber were completed then it would be the proper time. But the groom's father would be the one to give permission. It was a common expression or saying, a Jewish idiom, that a man would say when his friends asked him when his marriage would be. He would reply, "of that day or hour no man knows, but my father only."

The unknown day also is a reference to the Feast of Trumpets, which comes with the observance of the new moon. Since the new moon has a cycle of 29.5 days, it is uncertain on whether it will be seen comes 29 or 30 days after the last new moon.

Further, since the Feast of Trumpets is also known as the "Wedding of the Messiah", this phrase is a rapture reference in three ways.

1. It refers to the time in the wedding when the groom would return to fetch his bride,

2. It refers to the Day of the Feast of Trumpets,

3. It refers to the "Wedding of the Messiah" on the Feast of Trumpets.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Matthew 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Mark 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Luke 12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.

Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Often reffered to as the "Rapture".

Case closed. The finality of our walk. We are with HIM, in "fullness".

God have mercy for those left.

Litterally.

wIKK YOU HEAR THE TRUMPET CALL?

hAVE YOU REALLY PUT ASIDE, ALL THINGS TO GIVE him gLORY?

hAVE YOU matt22:...lOVED him WITH ALL YOUR HEART, MIND, AND SOUL?

hAVE YOU?

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [caught up=HARPAZO=Rapture]

1 Thessalonians 4:18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

When he saw the crowds, 2 he went up the mountain, and after he had sat down, his disciples came to him.

2

He began to teach them, saying:

3

3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, 4 for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4

5 Blessed are they who mourn, for they will be comforted.

5

6 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the land.

6

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, 7 for they will be satisfied.

7

Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.

8

8 Blessed are the clean of heart, for they will see God.

9

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.

10

Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, 9 for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11

Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me.

Edited November 27, 2005 by Avidan

[JLW001]

1 Thess 4 and Act 2 settle the whole debate for me. Jesus will return to gather His people and to judge the nations. His second coming doent happen twice and it doesnt happen until the end of the age...Thats the end of time...The end of the world as we know it. (Hey that could be a cool song...oh wait lol).

Why does God send the angels to mark the saints before He pours out His wrath upon the world? Because a child of God will not face the wrath that He has for the Nations. He marks them so that the "angels" who carry out His wrath will not include them.

Only in the last couple of centuries has the pre-trib post trib mid-trib...whatever trib debate started.

Its very simple.

1.) Christ returns and resurrects the saints and transforms those saints (still alive) --as revealed in 1 Thess 4 and I Corinth 15 (I think).

2.) Revelation reveals all that happens before His return. And because the second coming, only happens once...well u can see what Im getting at.

3.) Peter reveals that Pentecost (in Acts) was the fullfillment of the prophecy of Joel....

NKJV Acts 2:

this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17

[Guest merricat]

the verse is practically saying, he wont come this time---to bear sin(that was his 1st incarnations "cup")---this time, he will bring salvation to those in waiting---

which means the 7 year trib saints and those who survive physically.(Israel in Petra)

Edited December 29, 2005 by merricat

[Guest merricat]

Interesting Topic.

This is also quite interesting and how someone related the Jewish wedding it to the coming of Christ and thought I would share and get others view about this.

The ancient Jewish wedding ceremony consisted of 12 steps:

1. The selection of the bride.

The bride was usually chosen by the father of the bridegroom. The father would send his trusted servant, known as the agent of the father, to search out the bride.

2. A bride price was established.

A price would have to be paid for the bride. The agreed upon price was called a mohar in Hebrew. Yeshua, being our bridegroom, paid a very high price for His bride, the body of believers. The price He paid was His life.

3. The bride and groom are betrothed to each other.

4. A written document is drawn up, known as a ketubah.

The Bible is the believer's ketubah.

5. The bride must give her consent.

6. Gifts were given to the bride and a cup called the "cup of the covenant" was shared between the bride and the groom.

This cup, known as the cup of the covenant, is spoken of in Jeremiah 31:31-33, as it is written:

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which My covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put My law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be My people

7. The bride had a mikvah (water immersion), which is a ritual of cleansing.

8. The bridegroom departed, going back to his father's house to prepare the bridal chamber.

At this point, the bridegroom leaves for his father's house to prepare the bridal chamber for his bride. It was understood to be the man's duty to go away to be with his father, build a house, and prepare for the eventual wedding. Before he goes, though, he will make a statement to the bride. "I go to prepare a place for you; if I go, I will return again unto you."

Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Fathers' house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto Myself that where I am, there ye may be also (John 14:1-3).

9. The bride was consecrated and set apart for a period of time while the bridegroom was away building the house.

Before the bridegroom could go and get the bride, the groom's father had to be satisfied that every preparation had been made by the son. Only then could he give permission to the son to go and get the bride. In other words, while the bridegroom was working on the bridal chamber, it was the father who "okayed" the final bridal chamber. The bridegroom did not know when his father would declare the bridal chamber fit and send him to go get his bride. (Mark 13:32-37).

Meanwhile, the bride was to wait eagerly for the return of the bridegroom. In the mind of the bride, the bridegroom could come at any time, even in the middle of the night or at midnight. Therefore, she had to be ready at all times.

10. The bridegroom would return with a shout, "Behold, the bridegroom comes" and the sound of the ram's horn (shofar) would be blown.

The time of the return of the bridegroom was usually at midnight. When the bridegroom did come, he came with a shout (Matthew 25:6) and with the blowing of a shofar (trumpet) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Revelation 4:1). The marriage between the bride and the groom will take place under the chupah or wedding canopy. Since Heaven is a type of chupah, we can see that when Yeshua gives a shout for His bride, accompanied by the blowing of a shofar (trumpet), the marriage between Yeshua and His bride will take place in Heaven.

11. He would abduct his bride, usually in the middle of the night, to go to the bridal chamber where the marriage would be consummated.

This is the full marriage, known in Hebrew as nesu'in. The bride and groom will go to the wedding chamber, or chadar in Hebrew, where the marriage will be consummated. They will stay in that wedding chamber for seven days, or a week. At the end of the seven days, the bride and groom will come out from the wedding chamber. This can be seen in Joel 2:16.

The word week in Hebrew is shavuah. It means a "seven." It can mean seven days or seven years. An example of the Hebrew word for week (shavuah) meaning seven years can be found in Daniel 9:24, and in 9:27, "And he [the false Messiah known as the antichrist] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week [shavuah, seven years]...." This "week" is known to Bible-believers as the tribulation period. The Jewish people understand this time to be the birthpangs of the Messiah known in Hebrew eschatology as the Chevlai shel Mashiach. This is taken from Jeremiah 30:5-7. From this we can see that the believers in the Messiah will be with the Messiah in Heaven for His wedding while the earth will be experiencing the seven-year tribulation period, or the Chevlai shel Mashiach, in Hebrew.

12. Finally, there would be a marriage supper for all the guests invited by the father of the bride.

The bride and the groom would be in the wedding chamber for seven days. When the bride and the groom initially went into the wedding chamber, the friend of the bridegroom stood outside the door. All the assembled guests of the wedding gathered outside, waiting for the friend of the bridegroom to announce the consummation of the marriage, which was relayed to him by the groom. The bloodstained linen from this night was preserved. It was proof of the bride's virginity.

On the wedding day, the bridegroom is seen as a king and the bride as a queen. During the consummation of the marriage, the bridegroom (Yeshua) will be crowned King over all the earth and the bride (the believers in Yeshua, the Messiah) will live with Him and rule with Him forever. The crowning of the King and the marriage can be seen in Isaiah 62:3-7.

At the end of the week (seven-year tribulation, or birthpangs of the Messiah), the marriage supper will take place. The marriage supper will not take place in Heaven. After the marriage, the bride and Groom will return to earth. The marriage supper will be taking place on earth and only the invited guests of the Father of the Groom (G-d the Father) will be present at the banquet meal. This can be seen in Revelation 19:7-16 and 20:4. Yeshua spoke of the marriage supper and the banquet in Luke 12:35-38 and Matthew 8:11.

The unbelievers in the Messiah will attend a separate banquet where the fowls of the air will eat their flesh. This can be seen in Revelation 19:17-18.

The home of the bride was Jerusalem and it was the bridegroom who came to the bride to dwell with her. It is from Jerusalem that the believers in the Messiah during the Messianic age, or Millennium, will reign with the Messiah. This can be seen in Revelation 21:1-3; Ezekiel 43:1-2,7; Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-5; and Zechariah 2:l0-12.

Blessings,

merricat