God's True Purpose For Israel

[Jake for Jesus]

Yod, this will let you know I read your post.

Obviously, your aware of the fact that there are Christian organizations that have agreed to withhold the gospel to the Jewish people, and you don't care.

Well, how can I help that?

However, I will say this. If you don't see anything wrong with that now.

You will by the end of this discussion, I can sure tell you that.

For I am going to expose the lies of Christian Zionism.

Edited October 4, 2005 by Jake for Jesus

[Jake for Jesus]

Greetings in Jesus to all.

This will let you know I have read all posts in this discussion, and I have come now to want to say this to you.

Its true that Jews need to see a recognition by Christian believers of the prophetic significance of their nation, and of God's on going love for them as a people.

I do not agrue that!

I have long since been supportive of that.

And will continue to be supportive of that.

This must be done in order to mitigate the damage done by false Christians, and the anti-Israel preaching currently expounded by some.

I know someone whose wife's parnets are Holocaust survivors, and she is a former refusnik under the communists. Her grandfather, and many of her family were murdered in the Holocaust.

Yet his very Jewish wife who is a Christian believer will be the first to tell you that while it was a terrible tragedy, that false Christians murdered her grandfather in the name of Christianity, it is an even greater tragedy that when he died, he entered into eternity without knowing Jesus as his Messiah.

The Word of God repeatedly makes it clear that if we do not warn the Jews, and others to repent, and accept Jesus, they will go to hell, but God will require their blood at our hands (Ezekiel 3:18, 19; Acts 18:6, 20:26).

Some day there will be people who are going stand before the Judgement seat of Christ watching Jewish souls from whom they withheld the gospel, being cast into hell. Among these will be the Israeli politicians whose friendship they courted at the expense of not speaking about Jesus.

In reading my posts, if it may would appear to you that I am angry.

You need to now that my anger is directed toward no one but Satan, and is certainly not directed toward those sincere Christian believers who are being misled into thinking that this deception is of God, when the Word of God makes it clear that it has nothing to do with Him.

Jesus said: "If you love Me, keep My commandments" (John 14:15).

He commanded that we give the Jews the gospel.

If is not enough to tell the Jews we love them, and that we recognize the prophetic place of their nation in God's plan, and to tell them no more for fear of offending them.

The Apostle Paul said, "I have not shunned to declare to you [not avoided declaring] the whole counsel of God" (Acts 20:27). Christian Zionists preach only one aspect of God's purpose, and as a result TURN IT INTO A LIE.

Edited October 4, 2005 by Jake for Jesus

[Guest yod]

Yod, this will let you know I read your post.

Obviously, your aware of the fact that there are Christian organizations that have agreed to withhold the gospel to the Jewish people, and you don't care.

Well, how can I help that?

Obviously you can read...it is comprehension that seems to be a problem though.

Do you not know the meaning of "humanitarian"???

The organization which you have chosen to slander is not a good example to prove the point you claim to hold.

Again...for the slow of understanding...Bridges for Peace is a HUMANITARIAN organization. They help the poor. They help the homeless. They help those who need it.

They are not ashamed of being christians. Everyone knows that they are christians and that christians support them.

The government of Israel has a law against proselytizing. That law was not written by Bridges for Peace.

But they work within the parameters they have been given to SHOW the LOVE of Jesus. Have you ever heard the expression "Actions speak louder than words" ?

It is precisely BECAUSE of groups like them that Israelis are not as suspicious of christians as they have been historically.

Learn a parable

"One man sows and another man reaps. You have entered into the labor of another man." - Jesus

However, I will say this. If you don't see anything wrong with that now.

You will by the end of this discussion, I can sure tell you that.

For I am going to expose the lies of Christian Zionism.

It is painfully obvious that you don't have a clue...but you do have an agenda.

I will be reading along...but only so I can heal the damage you plan to do with guile and mischaracterization.

[Guest shiloh357]

Yod, this will let you know I read your post.

Obviously, your aware of the fact that there are Christian organizations that have agreed to withhold the gospel to the Jewish people,  and you don't care.

Well, how can I help that?

However, I will say this. If you don't see anything wrong with that now.

You will by the end of this discussion, I can sure tell you that.

For I am going to expose the lies of Christian Zionism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, you willl just demonstrate your stark ignorance of the issue you chose to address. Should be interesting.

[Guest yod]

There are some christian zionists who are "in the flesh" and enamored with all things jewish or Israeli. Most of those are people who are helping Israel for the wrong reasons.

For instance, I know of christians (zionists and otherwise) who have given resources for the rebuilding of the next Temple. These people know that this Temple is going to cause immeasurable suffering for the jewish people but these christians think they are hastening the return of Jesus by helping build a Temple.

Practically none of them are messianic in the slightest way. They are usually Protestants with a pre-trib rapture belief who just want a ticket out of here and don't mind the jews suffering because, after all, it's gonna happen anyway, right?

But I promise you that I know 50 times as many zionists as you do...maybe more. You have made a lot of sweeping generalizations that might be true of the few that you think you know...but it ain't an accurate portrayal of the truth. It is only "l'shon hara" (evil speech) against people whom you do not understand

[Guest parousia2]

GOD's TRUE PURPOSE FOR ISRAEL IS SALVATION

I am just curious as to how many of you here who may be sincere, devoted followers of Jesus that may have be deceived to believe the lies of Christian Zionism? And in particular the lie that the Jews are being re-gathered to their anicent land today to be blessed?

The Jews are not being re-gathered to their ancient land to be blessed. They are being re-gather to their ancient land to face a terrible judgment is why they are being re-gathered --- known in Jeremiah 30 as the time of Jacob's trouble (the Great Tribulation) in which they will be deceived into thinking the Antichrist is their Messiah (John chapter 5:43).

I am just curious as to how many have been told that there is a blessing for Jews apart from Jesus? If you have been told that. It is a lie! There is no blessing for the Jews apart from Jesus.

The Jews are under the curse of the law, as Paul plainly states in Roman and Galatians (see Deuteronomy 27:26; Galatians 3:10-11; Romans 2:12, 3:19-20, 4:13-15). As the Bible teaches, the law of God is indeed perfect (Psalm 19:8; 119; Romans 4:13-15), but it brings an indictment against all mankind for their sins. Yet because the Jews were specifically chosen to bring the world the revelation of God, the indictment falls upon them first (Exodus 17:8, 16; Deuteronomy 25:17-19).

For reasons of how some here have reacted to my posts on this bulletion board during the short time I have been here, in attempts to misrepresent me to others and the things I say, and to criticize me. I have now come to want to probe to see more of just what kind of Christianity you have here.

Jacob

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try reading your Bible. You need to read Ezek 36 and 37. God is regathering His people back to His Land to demonstrate His faithfulness to His Word. God promiserd that He would scatter them and He promised that He would gather them back to the Land as well. He does this, not because they deserve it, but so that His Name will not be reproached among the nations. God's hand is still upon the Jewish people. The Land is theirs by right of an eternal covenant. And yes, He is bringing them back as a blessing to them, because He loves them.

This thread will not serve your purpose, but will serve to show that you are ignorant of Christian Zionism, what it stands for, and what God's purposes for it are. It will unfortunately serve as a platform for anti-Semitism, and those on this board who hate the Jewish people will see this as an opportunity to share why they hate Jews and it will justify their belief that they are a cursed race. You will be a close ally to those who hate Israel.

It will show that people like you are a liabilty to the Kingdom of God and to Jewish evangelism, not an asset. With so called "Christians" like you, who needs the Nazis?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dear Shiloh357: I am going to respond to you with kindness despite the hateful things you say. I don't know why you think that is necesary. Why is believing that God has fulfilled His promises to national Israel in the Church, spiritual Israel, Anti-Semitism? I hold no ill will against Jews--it is my desire that they come to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. I have no allegiance to those despicable people who attack innocent people for their religious cause. I resent your saying that I do. People "like me" simply want Jews to become true Jews--the spiritual seed of Abraham. Is that hatred? I can barely respond to your characterization of Nazism. I could not be further removed from that detestable system. Furthermore, I am not a "so-called Christian." I am a born-again child of the living God, called out of darkness and brought into His wonderful light through the power of the Holy Spirit and on the basis of Jesus' shed blood. I would like to explain my position of why I believe the promises to national Israel have been fulfilled in the Church, but I don't think someone who makes such unfounded and horrible accusations is open to reason. I do not want to argue. I want to reason through the Scriptures without name calling and unfounded characterizations. If anyone else would like to hear my position, please post your questions.

[Guest shiloh357]

GOD's TRUE PURPOSE FOR ISRAEL IS SALVATION

I am just curious as to how many of you here who may be sincere, devoted followers of Jesus that may have be deceived to believe the lies of Christian Zionism? And in particular the lie that the Jews are being re-gathered to their anicent land today to be blessed?

The Jews are not being re-gathered to their ancient land to be blessed. They are being re-gather to their ancient land to face a terrible judgment is why they are being re-gathered --- known in Jeremiah 30 as the time of Jacob's trouble (the Great Tribulation) in which they will be deceived into thinking the Antichrist is their Messiah (John chapter 5:43).

I am just curious as to how many have been told that there is a blessing for Jews apart from Jesus? If you have been told that. It is a lie! There is no blessing for the Jews apart from Jesus.

The Jews are under the curse of the law, as Paul plainly states in Roman and Galatians (see Deuteronomy 27:26; Galatians 3:10-11; Romans 2:12, 3:19-20, 4:13-15). As the Bible teaches, the law of God is indeed perfect (Psalm 19:8; 119; Romans 4:13-15), but it brings an indictment against all mankind for their sins. Yet because the Jews were specifically chosen to bring the world the revelation of God, the indictment falls upon them first (Exodus 17:8, 16; Deuteronomy 25:17-19).

For reasons of how some here have reacted to my posts on this bulletion board during the short time I have been here, in attempts to misrepresent me to others and the things I say, and to criticize me. I have now come to want to probe to see more of just what kind of Christianity you have here.

Jacob

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try reading your Bible. You need to read Ezek 36 and 37. God is regathering His people back to His Land to demonstrate His faithfulness to His Word. God promiserd that He would scatter them and He promised that He would gather them back to the Land as well. He does this, not because they deserve it, but so that His Name will not be reproached among the nations. God's hand is still upon the Jewish people. The Land is theirs by right of an eternal covenant. And yes, He is bringing them back as a blessing to them, because He loves them.

This thread will not serve your purpose, but will serve to show that you are ignorant of Christian Zionism, what it stands for, and what God's purposes for it are. It will unfortunately serve as a platform for anti-Semitism, and those on this board who hate the Jewish people will see this as an opportunity to share why they hate Jews and it will justify their belief that they are a cursed race. You will be a close ally to those who hate Israel.

It will show that people like you are a liabilty to the Kingdom of God and to Jewish evangelism, not an asset. With so called "Christians" like you, who needs the Nazis?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dear Shiloh357: I am going to respond to you with kindness despite the hateful things you say. I don't know why you think that is necesary. Why is believing that God has fulfilled His promises to national Israel in the Church, spiritual Israel, Anti-Semitism? I hold no ill will against Jews--it is my desire that they come to faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. I have no allegiance to those despicable people who attack innocent people for their religious cause. I resent your saying that I do. People "like me" simply want Jews to become true Jews--the spiritual seed of Abraham. Is that hatred? I can barely respond to your characterization of Nazism. I could not be further removed from that detestable system. Furthermore, I am not a "so-called Christian." I am a born-again child of the living God, called out of darkness and brought into His wonderful light through the power of the Holy Spirit and on the basis of Jesus' shed blood. I would like to explain my position of why I believe the promises to national Israel have been fulfilled in the Church, but I don't think someone who makes such unfounded and horrible accusations is open to reason. I do not want to argue. I want to reason through the Scriptures without name calling and unfounded characterizations. If anyone else would like to hear my position, please post your questions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never addressed you, so I don't know what you are talking about. My remarks had nothing to do with your theology. I was addressing Jake.

My point was that this thread will not only demonstrate Jake's ignorance of Christian Zionism, but will serve to give a voice to those who hate Israel and regular post anti-Semitic things about Israel. It will give a voice to those who seek opportunities to malign Israel and the Jewish people.

[Jake for Jesus]

Parousia wrote to Shiloh:

I am a born-again child of the living God, called out of darkness and brought into His wonderful light through the power of the Holy Spirit and on the basis of Jesus' shed blood.

I would like to explain my position of why I believe the promises to national Israel have been fulfilled in the Church, but I don't think someone who makes such unfounded and horrible accusations is open to reason.

I do not want to argue.

I want to reason through the Scriptures without name calling and unfounded characterizations.

If anyone else would like to hear my position, please post your questions.

My Response:

THE WISEST ONE . . .

Please do share with us what you believe, and why you believe what you believe. I would be interested in hearing what you have to say.

[Jake for Jesus]

"Yod" wrote to "Jake for Jesus":

"Bridges for Peace" is a humanitarian organization. They help the poor. They help the homeless. They help those who need it.

My Response:

I know what "Bridges for Peace" is, and I also know they have signed papers and have in entered into an agreement to withhold the Gospel from the Jewish people.

Yod wrote:

The government of Israel has a law against proselytizing. That law was not written by Bridges for Peace.

My Response:

I know what the law is, and its only against proselytizing to be mixed with providing of humanitarian aid is all. Moreover, Christian humanitarian aid organizations in Israel are not asked or forced to sign papers entering into agreements to withold the Gospel to Jewish people or to anyone else in Israel.

I do not agrue the work of valid evangelical organizations such as "Prayer for Israel" and "Christian Friends of Israel." They are both Christian and pro-Zionist. They are moderates, they are Christ-centric as opposed to Israel-centric, and are therefore biblically balanced in their approach. They stand for Israel's right to exist, warn of the dangers of Islam to Judeo/Christian civilization, and work to point the Church to back towards its Hebrew root. They do not, however, turn their backs on the local Israeli Body of Christ in order to placate Rabbis and to cultivate good relations with Israeli politicians. While these organizations are not evangelistic, they do stand with the Israeli Messianic believers in their quest to evangelize Israel, and the people in these organizatiions will often share their faith on a personal low key basis.

My argument is with those organizations like the one you named "Bridges for Peace," which have agreed to withhold the gospel to the Jewish people, and also with those who in some cases taught against presenting it.

Yod wrote:

But they work within the parameters they have been given to show the love of Jesus. Have you ever heard the expression "Actions speak louder than words?

Yes, their actions have spoken louder that words alright, when they signed papers entering into an agreement to withhold the Gospel from the Jewish people. That tells me they are only interested in trying to help the poor to be as comfortable as possible like mother Teresa did before they go to hell.

Edited October 4, 2005 by Jake for Jesus

[RGR]

"Yod" wrote to "Jake for Jesus":

"Bridges for Peace" is a humanitarian organization. They help the poor. They help the homeless. They help those who need it.

My Response:

I know what "Bridges for Peace" is, and I also know they have signed papers and have in entered into an agreement to withhold the Gospel from the Jewish people.

Yod wrote:

The government of Israel has a law against proselytizing. That law was not written by Bridges for Peace.

My Response:

I know what the law is, and its only against proselytizing to be mixed with providing of humanitarian aid is all.  Moreover, Christian humanitarian aid organizations in Israel are not asked or forced to sign papers entering into agreements to withold the Gospel to Jewish people or to anyone else in Israel.

I do not agrue the work of valid evangelical organizations such as "Prayer for Israel" and "Christian Friends of Israel."  They are both Christian and pro-Zionist. They are moderates, they are Christ-centric as opposed to Israel-centric, and are therefore biblically balanced in their approach. They stand for Israel's right to exist, warn of the dangers of Islam to Judeo/Christian civilization, and work to point the Church to back towards its Hebrew root. They do not, however, turn their backs on the local Israeli Body of Christ in order to placate Rabbis and to cultivate good relations with Israeli politicians. While these organizations are not evangelistic, they do stand with the Israeli Messianic believers in their quest to evangelize Israel, and the people in these organizatiions will often share their faith on a personal low key basis.

My argument is with those organizations like the one you named "Bridges for Peace," which have agreed to withhold the gospel to the Jewish people, and also with those who in some cases taught against presenting it.

Yod wrote:

But they work within the parameters they have been given to show the love of Jesus. Have you ever heard the expression "Actions speak louder than words?

Yes, their actions have spoken louder that words alright, when they signed papers entering into an agreement to withhold the Gospel from the Jewish people. That tells me they are only interested in trying to help the poor to be as comfortable as possible like mother Teresa did before they go to hell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jake,

I've really done more reading than posting in these threads, but this one sorta burns me.

Which is better? Completely stay out of the country of Israel, thereby eliminating any influence of Christianity, or working within what they can do?

There's no point in arguing this. Yod and Shiloh could say that the grass outside of my house needs mowing (and it does, btw!) and you would come look at it and say it didn't just for the sake of arguing with them.