Could there be Multiple Raptures?

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You are mistaken about the first seals. The first seal, opened around 32 AD (As soon as Jesus ascended) is the CHURCH sent out with the GOSPEL.

Seals 2, 3, and  4 are to represent the DEVIL trying to stop the advance of the gospel into HIS world. 

Seems rather fanciful to me.  The first seal begins the Tribulation, a 7 year period.  How do you prove your claim about the first seal being 32 AD?

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Are you denying John 14? That hints strongly of a trip to heaven. Anyway, where will Jesus be during the 70th week? Would you rather be with Him or would you rather live to face the Beast and be overcome? 

I don't deny John 14, but I DO refute the notion of any "rapture" there.  "strong hint" my eye.  Jesus was assurring His 11 disciples that they were going to heaven when they died.  After Judas, the disciples were probably shaken to the core and wondered if they weren't going to make it.  It has nothing about any rapture.  But you know the deal;  those who look very hard for something usually find it.  Meaning, they are simply "seeing things" that aren't there.

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

God gives everyone a choice: pray that we be found worthy to escape what is coming - or say behind and be overcome. Which will you choose? Are you praying to be found worthy to escape? 

Where do you get your material?  Where did you read about God giving people a choice about whether to be snatched to heaven or stay behind???  That's just a fantasy.

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Notice the last phrase. HOW will be be able to "stand before" Jesus? The same we we "get to live together with Him." the same way "so shall we ever be with the Lord." Paul's rapture IS God's escape plan. 

More fantasy.  One escapes trouble by being faithful to the Lord, just as the Israelites were faithful and escaped all the plagues of Egypt even though they were IN the land.

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Either people will be found worthy to escape, and they will be caught up in the rapture OR - they won't be found worthy. Could this worthiness have something to do with what we believe? I think it does.

Except there are no verses that describe Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.

And a pretrib rapture before the Tribulation is refuted by 1 Cor 15:23.  All believers will be resurrected at the same time, which is "when He comes".  If that verse refers to a pretrib rapture, then you can't explain Rev 20:4-6 where tribulation martyrs being resurrected and reigning with Christ during the MK.  That's NOT POSSIBLE if a pretrib rapture is true.

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I think you don't understand the second advent from the THIRD advent.

[I fully understand there is NO third advent.  Jesus came to earth the FIRST time as a baby to become the Suffering Servant.  Jesus will come back to earth the SECOND time as King of kings and Lord of lords.  That's all the OT prophesied about.  Trying to insert (force) another "coming" only muddies the waters and violates a number of verses.]

 Jesus is coming PRE-TRIB FOR His bride (His second appearance) then will come again seven years later WITH His bride. That will be his THIRD coming.

And you have no verses that back this up.

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

For confimation:
John SAW the raptured church in heaven shortly after the 6th seal.
There are two verse that show the church returning WITH Jesus.
The marriage and supper are in heaven and in Rev. 19, the saints are all there.

I am praying to be found worthy to escape. I highly recommend you do the same!

Nope.  John saw the multitude of saved people from Adam on in heaven.  No one has been glorified and taken to heaven.  And it isn't "the church" that returns with Jesus.

No.  It will be EVERY believer since Adam.  All of them.

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Sorry but none of this makes sense.  And no one says "a body from the corruption MAKES a glorified spiritual immortal body", so why are you even mentioning what isn't true??

Where and when do the 'glorified' bodies come from?

Sure hope you address the questions in the next post 

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

You can wonder all you want, but your posts are so confused I have no idea what your point is.  What, exactly, are you looking for?  

Your beliefs.  It shouldn't be hard to put them forth, even if you don't agree. 

BUT no, more of this...just like the pre trib rapture responses, nothing written but everything else put forth while never addressing the questions and asking them again or saying they have been answered.  

I seriously can't think of a more simple way to ask them.  I don't think it gets more basic.  How is it confusing to you?   

Christ said the captives would be set free, the graves were opened and He led the captives when He ascended.  

YOU SAY THAT isn't a resurrection of THEM THAT SLEPT. 

If that isn't what they mean to you, what do they mean?  Is this confusing for you?

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

You can wonder all you want, but your posts are so confused I have no idea what your point is.  What, exactly, are you looking for?  

AS SIMPLE AS I CAN ASK,

WHAT DO THESE VERSES, ESPECIALLY THE BOLDED PARTS MEAN?
 

LUKE 4
17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.




MATT 27
51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


1 CORINTH 15
20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.



Ephesians 4
But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

 

[DeighAnn]

WHAT does the bible say about how we are raised up?

 

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

THAT IS WHAT IS WRITTEN.  THAT IS GODS TRUTH.  THAT IS THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH.  


DOES the bible say those who NEVER DIE are raised in any other way?


NO, it never does THAT IS JUST A TRADITION OF MAN. 

A CONCLUSION PROVEN WRONG BY WHAT IS WRITTEN above.  

ASSUMPTIONS THAT MAKE VOID THE WORDS OF GOD

proven to be FALSE DOCTRINE by pages and pages of ASKING for something written that would change it.  


not once in all these pages has anything been put forth except

it is raised in glory

if it is raised in glory they it is raised in glory which can only mean it is raised in glory.  

WHAT WONT ever BE FOUND IS

we return for a body

we return to receive a body

we return for a glorified body

we return for ANYTHING OF THIS CORRUPTED EARTH.  




WHAT IS WRITTEN HAPPENED TO THE EARTH?

GEN 3
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: CURSED IS THE GROUND  for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;


DOES GOD HAVE ANY RESPECT FOR THOSE THINGS THAT COME OF THE GROUND?

1And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

3And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

4And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.


Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

[DeighAnn]

1(A Prayer of Moses the man of God.) Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.

2Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

3Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.

4For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

5Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.

6In the morning it flourisheth, and groweth up; in the evening it is cut down, and withereth.

7For we are consumed by thine anger, and by thy wrath are we troubled.

8Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret sins in the light of thy countenance.

9For all our days are passed away in thy wrath: we spend our years as a tale that is told.

10The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away.





IDK if correct but I figured if someone knows any better they will let it be known.  If not will add it to the list of facts.  

[FreeGrace]

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Where and when do the 'glorified' bodies come from?

Sure hope you address the questions in the next post 

Read 1 Cor 15.  God provides the immortal glorified bodies.  Where do you think they come from??

I will.

[FreeGrace]

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Your beliefs.  It shouldn't be hard to put them forth, even if you don't agree. 

[I have been giving you my beliefs, and having to repeat them because you keep asking basically the same things.]

BUT no, more of this...just like the pre trib rapture responses, nothing written but everything else put forth while never addressing the questions and asking them again or saying they have been answered.  

["nothing written"?  I've given you verses for everything I am convinced of.]

I seriously can't think of a more simple way to ask them.  I don't think it gets more basic.  How is it confusing to you?   

[As I already pointed out, I'm not confused, but your posts are.  You keep asking the same things over and over, even though I have been answering over and over.]

Christ said the captives would be set free, the graves were opened and He led the captives when He ascended.  

YOU SAY THAT isn't a resurrection of THEM THAT SLEPT. 

If that isn't what they mean to you, what do they mean?  Is this confusing for you?

No, this isn't confusing for me.  It seems YOU are the one who can't or hasn't grasped the concept that the singular "resurrection" means getting a glorified body, and that will happen at the Second Advent.

Every account of being raised from the dead BEFORE the Second Advent does NOT include a glorified immortal body.  Can you understand this?

When Jesus died, He went to Hades, preached to the spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:19) and then took ALL the believers from Paradise (Abraham's bosom) with Him to heaven.  That means their souls, not they bodies.  And they are STILL without their physical bodies in heaven.  They are waiting to return with Christ to earth, where they will receive their resurrection bodies, immortal and glorified.

Doesn't get any more clear than this.

The ONLY resurrection that includes the immortal glorified body is "when He comes" and will be for ALL believers.  1 Cor 15:23.  Is there something in this verse that confuses you?

[FreeGrace]

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

AS SIMPLE AS I CAN ASK,
WHAT DO THESE VERSES, ESPECIALLY THE BOLDED PARTS MEAN?
LUKE 4
17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 

[This OT prophecy is about Jesus in His first advent.  He fulfilled v.18 and 19 before His death on a cross.  To "preach deliverance to the captives" refers to human beings who are captive to sin in their unregenerate state.  When a person believes in the Messiah, they are freed from that captivity.  Doesn't mean they can still obey their sin nature (Rom 6 and 7), but they are no longer unwilling captives, as they were before.  And none of this is related to resurrection.]

MATT 27
51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. 

[Dead saints came back to life but in their mortal bodies, which means they all died physically again.]

1 CORINTH 15
20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 

[Sleeping is used as a figure of speech for physical death, just as we clearly see in John 11 and Lazarus.  Jesus is the FIRST human being to receive a glorified body.]

Ephesians 4
But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

This passage is a reference to the time Jesus went to Hades after His death and He "led" means He took all the saved souls to heaven, where they are still, and still waiting for their glorified body.

btw, thank you for your organization of this post.  It was very easy to follow and answer.  :)