Kabowd Posted October 7, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 7, 2005 I am not saying we need to become Amish, although I do think we could take a look at some of their basic ideas against totally selling ourselves to American culture, which I think is essentially toxic and un-Christian. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ya know, sometimes I think the Amish just might have it all figured out. Other than the beard thing, I tried growing a beard once. Two weeks later my wife made me shave it off. How about when you see a family pray in a resturant. Sure sets them apart! God Bless, Kansas Dad <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The only thing the Amish have figured out is how to isolate themselves from the world. They have absolutely zero evangelistic impact on the world around them. They add to their numbers by reproducing physically, not spiritually. They have no outreach and no contact with the very people who need to hear the gospel message. They're secluded, reclusive and many of their communities are abusive. They contribute very little to society as a whole, preferring instead to pretend they aren't part of this world. And they have it all figured out how? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted October 7, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Well Tess I know what you mean, and I think evangelization is an issue. But you know they are much better witness to what it means to be a Christian than many others are, I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NITE OWL Posted October 7, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 535 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1957 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Before you go putting the amish up on a pedestal, you might want to take a look at their lifestyle. There's a lot of sexual sin going on in that community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kansasdad Posted October 10, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,227 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/19/1964 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Before you go putting the amish up on a pedestal, you might want to take a look at their lifestyle. There's a lot of sexual sin going on in that community. Tess mentioned abuse and you mention sexual sin. I have never heard this before. Are there actual studies on this or is it just something you have heard? I wouldn't want to be part of satans method of attacking the body of Christ. Hey where is the spell check???? God Bless, Kansas Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted October 10, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Well I am not setting the Amish or Monastic Communities on a pedestal at all. I think that is part of the problems with these discussions. Just because we say, well do these guys have some ideas? Does not mean we are saying they are totally right, they are the best, this idea of thinking "we are the best" is a big big problem. There is not one way to be a Christian, I would think Protestants would in particular recognize that, yet here we go because they are different they get slammed. As far as sexual abuse goes the Amish are not perfect, they have the same problems that we face, there is sexual abuse, there is domestic violence within these communities just as there exists within our Christian Churches and communities. I don't think it is any more from what I have seen, and probably much less than society at large. But I am not saying these guys are perfect. I am saying that they have some important things to tell Christians about rejecting materialism, and showing us that it is possible to live without modern conveniences or the need to make money or have a big career or be subsumed into this culture. I personally don't think most Christian communities and congregations in the United States today show people very much about being different from the world, unfortunately some seem to be embracing the world. So why not look at some alternatives? I thought that was the point of this thread, and there is no reason to re-invent the wheel. We have wonderful examples of Christians throughout history that did lead as being salt, as being witnesses to the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaniJ87 Posted October 10, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 265 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/30/1987 Share Posted October 10, 2005 I think that we should do our very best to be salt and light to the unbelievers, and also be separate. This does not mean that we need to be isolated. There is something very serious going on that is detrimental to our impact on the unsaved. This thing, is the confusion between the world, and culture. Wearing fashionable clothes, for instance, is not "worldly"- as long as they are modest. Using drums or electric guitars in music is not worldly, either. It is an element of current culture. I would point out that in the 1800's, pianos were considered to be worldly because they were used in the saloon. Well- in some saloons, I bet they still are- but they're in our churches too! Why must we drag ourselves so slowly? Why is it that the newest songs in a newly published hymnbook were written in 1983? Christian songs have not ceased to be written! But because some of them now have a different style, we ignore them, and denounce them as worldly. Why is it that we seem to think that new things or styles are inherently evil? I believe that if we keep up a little closer with culture, (Contemporary (means today) Christian music, stylish clothes, etc...) we will be more welcoming to the unsaved we are trying to draw. Note- this does NOT mean that I think that we should all listen to rock music that claims that it screams Christian words, or that we should run around copying the world. We still need standards- but try using a standard that is like a filter- rather than a familiarity meter. (If the music has a good message, and the message is presented effectively(how does the music effect the message? It does.) then, why should I condemn the music?) A question: I thought that the Amish weren't completely Christian; at least the ones in my area teach that if anyone leaves the Amish church, or is not a part of the Amish church, then they are not saved. This is not a biblical message; it is against Romans 14- (or wherever it is in Romans) where Paul tells us not to criticize or condemn other believers due to preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted October 10, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 10, 2005 I really didn't intend this topic to be about the Amish, however since it's come up, someone asked if there was any validity to the claims regarding rampant abuse within the communities - yes, there is. The problem is, the communities basically "police" themselves with very little contact with "state authorities". Therefore, it's rather difficult to come up with hard facts and statistics. Being that my brother is involved with criminal law, I asked him what he knew about it and he said that he knows some people who practice over in Pennsylvania. He gave me the title of an article that discusses this issue at length: The Gentle People Very often, even if there is evidence, confession and a person is clearly guilty, they get off with extremely light sentences. One of the reasons is because some of the prosecutors don't want to shake things up (seeing as how the Amish draw in millions of toursim dollars to these states). Secondly, it's EXTREMELY difficult to get people to speak up because their belief is that you should just "forgive and forget". Anyway, I'll respond to the other remarks when I have time...just wanted to address the Amish issue real quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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