Roymond Posted December 15, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 782 Content Per Day: 1.47 Reputation: 238 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted December 15, 2022 On 12/13/2022 at 9:27 AM, missmuffet said: Well then I am in trouble. I pray to Jesus Christ all the time. And I pray to the Spirit every time I sing, "Spirit of the Living God, fall afresh on me!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roymond Posted December 15, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 782 Content Per Day: 1.47 Reputation: 238 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted December 15, 2022 I heard this from a Catholic priest (a Dominican, IIRC), who told it as a cautionary tale: A man has been fired to climb up in the rafters of a very old Catholic church. As he's patiently and carefully wiping up dust and making sure none of it falls, a lady comes in, crosses herself, and kneels down near the front of the church. Deciding to have a little fun, the worker calls out in a whisper, "This is Jesus! Listen to me!" To his annoyance, she doesn't respond. He waits a bit and tries again: "Daughter, this is Jesus! Listen to me!" The lady shakes her head slightly but ignores the voice, so after a few minutes he tries it again, a bit louder. This time the lady looks up towards the roof, and says, "Stop bugging me -- I'm talking to your mother!" His point was that Mary is our greatest example since she was the first to receive Jesus, and deserves honor for being the one from whom Jesus got His human nature that He shares with us, and even that asking her to pray for us is fine -- but don't ever put her between you and her Son. That was at a conference with all kinds of people. It was a bit startling to hear it from a Catholic priest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not of the World Posted December 15, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 86 Topics Per Day: 0.14 Content Count: 1,060 Content Per Day: 1.78 Reputation: 456 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/12/2022 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 15, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Roymond said: That's a common assertion, but Catholics are following what Paul said when he wrote, "I preach Christ, and Him crucified". A crucifix is just a visual statement of what Paul wrote. Though I liken it to being at a championship game where your best friend is playing, and the time is dropping towards zero with no score on the board, when suddenly your friend busts loose and makes the winning score of the game, and the buzzer goes off. To remember your friend's achievement, which would you prefer: a picture of the empty field and goal, or a picture of him scoring? I'd rather have the picture of my friend scoring, and that's exactly what a crucifix is! -=- A Lutheran missionary to Africa describe it a different way, from an encounter he had with the shaman of a tribe. The shaman started to curse the missionary, and the missionary held up a plain cross. From the shaman's mouth came a voice that said, "Puny cross! Thousands have died that way and are mine!" But his wife was right there, and she took out the crucifix from her purse and held it up and said "Gaze on this, then, foul one". And the voice screamed "The Crucified One!", and the shaman collapsed on the ground. He had made almost no progress before that, but the shaman collapsing and the crucifix changed the situation: they wanted to know this Savior who had been nailed up like that and whose representation all by itself drove away their shaman's spirits. Demons can ignore a plain cross. But one with Jesus on it, His blood coming down, the title above His head -- that's a different matter because they know quite well just WHO that is! Roymond, are you Catholic? Edited December 15, 2022 by Not of the World Misspelled "Roymond" as "Raymond". Corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted December 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,995 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,693 Content Per Day: 11.72 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted December 15, 2022 9 hours ago, Roymond said: I heard this from a Catholic priest (a Dominican, IIRC), who told it as a cautionary tale: A man has been fired to climb up in the rafters of a very old Catholic church. As he's patiently and carefully wiping up dust and making sure none of it falls, a lady comes in, crosses herself, and kneels down near the front of the church. Deciding to have a little fun, the worker calls out in a whisper, "This is Jesus! Listen to me!" To his annoyance, she doesn't respond. He waits a bit and tries again: "Daughter, this is Jesus! Listen to me!" The lady shakes her head slightly but ignores the voice, so after a few minutes he tries it again, a bit louder. This time the lady looks up towards the roof, and says, "Stop bugging me -- I'm talking to your mother!" His point was that Mary is our greatest example since she was the first to receive Jesus, and deserves honor for being the one from whom Jesus got His human nature that He shares with us, and even that asking her to pray for us is fine -- but don't ever put her between you and her Son. That was at a conference with all kinds of people. It was a bit startling to hear it from a Catholic priest. I do not agree. I would never ask Mary to pray for me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted December 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,830 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,820 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 15, 2022 43 minutes ago, missmuffet said: I do not agree. I would never ask Mary to pray for me. It would do you no good anyway. She can't hear us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted December 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,995 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,693 Content Per Day: 11.72 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted December 15, 2022 29 minutes ago, Jayne said: It would do you no good anyway. She can't hear us. You are right. A waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farouk Posted December 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,791 Content Per Day: 12.19 Reputation: 3,478 Days Won: 31 Joined: 11/18/2022 Status: Online Share Posted December 15, 2022 1 hour ago, missmuffet said: You are right. A waste of time. Good just to stick to what Scripture reveals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roymond Posted December 15, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 782 Content Per Day: 1.47 Reputation: 238 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/15/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted December 15, 2022 2 hours ago, missmuffet said: I do not agree. I would never ask Mary to pray for me. So you don't ask other Christians to pray for you? That's all that asking Mary to do so is, the difference being shes in Heaven. My issue is slightly different: as a mere human, does Mary even have the capacity to take millions of prayer requests every day? Of course that depends on how time works on "the other side", and I could argue that either way. Though I prefer the phrasing I heard in one church (I think it was Lutheran, but it might have been Catholic); it was "Abraham and Mary, and all saints of old and new, pray for us". Abraham is the father of faith from the Old Testament, and Mary the exemplar of faith in the New Testament as the first person to accept Jesus, so they stand for all the unnamed saints who have gone before, and that request forwards our need to all the saints in Heaven. Now if there were only a way I could forward my prayer requests to all the saints on earth.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted December 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,995 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,693 Content Per Day: 11.72 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted December 15, 2022 7 minutes ago, Roymond said: So you don't ask other Christians to pray for you? That's all that asking Mary to do so is, the difference being shes in Heaven. My issue is slightly different: as a mere human, does Mary even have the capacity to take millions of prayer requests every day? Of course that depends on how time works on "the other side", and I could argue that either way. Though I prefer the phrasing I heard in one church (I think it was Lutheran, but it might have been Catholic); it was "Abraham and Mary, and all saints of old and new, pray for us". Abraham is the father of faith from the Old Testament, and Mary the exemplar of faith in the New Testament as the first person to accept Jesus, so they stand for all the unnamed saints who have gone before, and that request forwards our need to all the saints in Heaven. Now if there were only a way I could forward my prayer requests to all the saints on earth.... Are you Catholic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not of the World Posted December 15, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 86 Topics Per Day: 0.14 Content Count: 1,060 Content Per Day: 1.78 Reputation: 456 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/12/2022 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 15, 2022 18 minutes ago, Roymond said: So you don't ask other Christians to pray for you? Asking my neighbor to pray for me is not the same as asking DEAD people to pray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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