How To Read The 2 Creation Accounts

[RV_Wizard]

What did God inscribe on the stone tablet?  “For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.”  No, sorry.  God said it.  It IS truth.

[FreeGrace]

On 10/17/2023 at 9:24 PM, tim_from_pa said:

The Hebrew for Genesis 1:2 is:

1:2  וְהָאָרֶץ הָיְתָה תֹהוּ וָבֹהוּ וְחֹשֶׁךְ עַל־פְּנֵי תְהוֹם וְרוּחַ אֱלֹהִים מְרַחֶפֶת עַל־פְּנֵי הַמָּֽיִם׃

I can pick out what is formless and void by reading the Hebrew myself and I see it's: 

הָיְתָה תֹהוּ וָבֹהו

Interestingly, I thought I'd just try a Google translation to see what today's Jewish person would call that phrase Tohu v Bohu and it's this:  "There was confusion and confusion"  I'm not saying this is a perfect translation, but as us gap theorists say, there is thought here that the Earth once existed and then some cataclysm happened.  The whole verse translated is similar that says: And the earth was confusion and confusion and darkness on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters.

The tone is not that of something initially formless and then God continued working on it.  The tone is that the earth became a wreck and God recreated it (this time for Adam and all that's in this present world).

As I have pointed out in other 'creation' threads, the idea of earth being 'formless' is unfounded.  Anything and everything that can be seen HAS a form.  No way around it.

So God couldn't have created a "formless" earth.  Not even possible.  The earth is a sphere, and it was created that way.

However, the real key is found in the 2 Hebrew words "tohu wabohu" translated "without form and void".  This phrase is found in only 3 verses; Gen 1:2, Jer 4:23 and Isa 45:11.  In BOTH Jer 4:23 and Isa 34:11, the context is very clearly about "the land" being totally destroyed so as to be uninhabited.  In Jer 4 there is a "besieging army" that is a "destroyer of nations" who attacks the la2 nd and leaves it "tohu wabohu".

In Isa 34:11, the text shows that God Himself renders the land "tohu wabohu" and the tone is about God's discipline or judgment.

So, in of 3 verses, the clear message is that "tohu wabohu" was used to describe the total destruction of land.  The only thing missing in Gen 1:2 is any detail of how the earth BECAME "tohu wabohu".  

There is NO WAY that phrase could mean part of God's creative process for the earth when the 2 other verses are clearly about a total destruction.

The verb in v.2 (hayah) in that specific form, is translated as "became" or "become" in many of the 111 verses it occurs.  And in the verses that translate that exact same form of hayah as "was", 'became' is just as legitimate.

For example, Mary WAS the wife of Joseph.  It is just as legit to say Mary BECAME the wife of Joseph.  Not even Even was created as Adam's wife.  Not until he came to and the Lord presented her to him.  

Finally, the Hebrew scholars back in 700 BC translated the LXX and chose "de" which is equivalent to the English "but" rather than all the English translations that used "and".  They recognized a contrast between v.1 and v.2.

So v.2 should be understand as:  But the earth became an uninhabitable wasteland.

For me, the only "theory" would be what one says occurred during the unknown time gap between v.1 and v.2.  

[tim_from_pa]

On 11/21/2023 at 11:14 AM, FreeGrace said:

As I have pointed out in other 'creation' threads, the idea of earth being 'formless' is unfounded.  Anything and everything that can be seen HAS a form.  No way around it.

So God couldn't have created a "formless" earth.  Not even possible.  The earth is a sphere, and it was created that way.

However, the real key is found in the 2 Hebrew words "tohu wabohu" translated "without form and void".  This phrase is found in only 3 verses; Gen 1:2, Jer 4:23 and Isa 45:11.  In BOTH Jer 4:23 and Isa 34:11, the context is very clearly about "the land" being totally destroyed so as to be uninhabited.  In Jer 4 there is a "besieging army" that is a "destroyer of nations" who attacks the la2 nd and leaves it "tohu wabohu".

In Isa 34:11, the text shows that God Himself renders the land "tohu wabohu" and the tone is about God's discipline or judgment.

So, in of 3 verses, the clear message is that "tohu wabohu" was used to describe the total destruction of land.  The only thing missing in Gen 1:2 is any detail of how the earth BECAME "tohu wabohu".  

There is NO WAY that phrase could mean part of God's creative process for the earth when the 2 other verses are clearly about a total destruction.

The verb in v.2 (hayah) in that specific form, is translated as "became" or "become" in many of the 111 verses it occurs.  And in the verses that translate that exact same form of hayah as "was", 'became' is just as legitimate.

For example, Mary WAS the wife of Joseph.  It is just as legit to say Mary BECAME the wife of Joseph.  Not even Even was created as Adam's wife.  Not until he came to and the Lord presented her to him.  

Finally, the Hebrew scholars back in 700 BC translated the LXX and chose "de" which is equivalent to the English "but" rather than all the English translations that used "and".  They recognized a contrast between v.1 and v.2.

So v.2 should be understand as:  But the earth became an uninhabitable wasteland.

For me, the only "theory" would be what one says occurred during the unknown time gap between v.1 and v.2.  

Yes, exactly.  And of course is the division (after God's judgement) between the first earth age and the present (second) age.