Salvation is in your hands, Jesus did his part.

[FreeGrace]

12 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do thtat I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19). This was a direct answer to a direct question. 

When Jesus spoke to the rich young ruler, He wasn't evangelizing the guy.  They guy wasn't even ready for it.  He thought he had been keeping the WHOLE law, since his youth.

However, Jesus told him what he lacked, and told him to give everything he owned to the poor and follow Him.  The guy left sad because he had great wealth.  What that showed was that he had been FAILNING to keep the FIRST commandment, which is to love the Lord His God with ALL of his heart, ALL of his mind, ALL of his soul and ALL of his strength, and love others as himself.

He loved his wealth MORE than anything else.  Proving he needed salvation, since all he really wanted was affirmation from the "good teacher".

If you think Jesus was telling him how to be saved, you have really missed the whole point of what Jesus did tell him.

If you disagree with me here, can you explain WHY you do?  What have I said that isn't true?  Thanks.

Edited August 30, 2023 by FreeGrace

[Bro.Tan]

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

When Jesus spoke to the rich young ruler, He wasn't evangelizing the guy.  They guy wasn't even ready for it.  He thought he had been keeping the WHOLE law, since his youth.

However, Jesus told him what he lacked, and told him to give everything he owned to the poor and follow Him.  The guy left sad because he had great wealth.  What that showed was that he had been FAILNING to keep the FIRST commandment, which is to love the Lord His God with ALL of his heart, ALL of his mind, ALL of his soul and ALL of his strength, and love others as himself.

He loved his wealth MORE than anything else.  Proving he needed salvation, since all he really wanted was affirmation from the "good teacher".

If you think Jesus was telling him how to be saved, you have really missed the whole point of what Jesus did tell him.

If you disagree with me here, can you explain WHY you do?  What have I said that isn't true?  Thanks.

Let's go back into Matthew 19: 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Notice the young man says "All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?" The young man didn’t need to ask this question to Jesus, because he was already in a good place with the Lord. This is where the story gets interesting, because if you read the full story which we have to do, to get full understanding. We will see that the commandments Jesus mention wasn't the young man problem, it was something else. 

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. 

So Jesus says if thou be perfect, that means the young was really close to being perfect, but the young had great riches that he couldn't let go, and that goes with what Jesus says in Matthew (22:37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (38) This is the first and great commandment. This was very hard for the young man to do.

So let's recap the story a little, the young man kept the commandments from his youth up, all most perfect, except one thing Jesus ask him to do, and that's sell all his possession and come follow him. This is about the young man heart, he did right by keeping the law from his youth up and he was bless, but his heart toward the lord was not all the way in place. The young man could of kept silence.

So let's continue in Matthew 19: 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

[FreeGrace]

3 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Let's go back into Matthew 19: 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Notice the young man says "All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?" The young man didn’t need to ask this question to Jesus, because he was already in a good place with the Lord. This is where the story gets interesting, because if you read the full story which we have to do, to get full understanding. We will see that the commandments Jesus mention wasn't the young man problem, it was something else. 

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. 

So Jesus says if thou be perfect, that means the young was really close to being perfect, but the young had great riches that he couldn't let go, and that goes with what Jesus says in Matthew (22:37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (38) This is the first and great commandment. This was very hard for the young man to do.

So let's recap the story a little, the young man kept the commandments from his youth up, all most perfect, except one thing Jesus ask him to do, and that's sell all his possession and come follow him. This is about the young man heart, he did right by keeping the law from his youth up and he was bless, but his heart toward the lord was not all the way in place. The young man could of kept silence.

So let's continue in Matthew 19: 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

I've already explained the account.  Do you have any questions?  I noticed that you ignored the whole point of the account, showing that the ancounter wasn't evangelism.  

Again, no one is saved/justified by keeping the law.  

Seems you think so.  Why?

[Bro.Tan]

3 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

I've already explained the account.  Do you have any questions?  I noticed that you ignored the whole point of the account, showing that the ancounter wasn't evangelism.  

Again, no one is saved/justified by keeping the law.  

Seems you think so.  Why?

I agree, Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord.

But let's take a look at what Paul says in (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. 

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. (See exodus 20: 1-17) 

[JimmyB]

On 8/27/2023 at 10:35 AM, Bro.Tan said:

One of the first thing Jesus says when he got started in his ministry, Jesus says in Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Then Peter said unto them, "repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38). “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Look there some repentance going on here in the Bible. Pauls says in 2 Corinthians 12: 21 and lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

Jesus, Peter and Paul tell the world to repent, but say the Bible don't tell you that.

 Please copy and paste scriptures and verses!

 

 

Speaking of copying-and-pasting what does this mean: "and lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed"? 

Particularly "I shall bewail many which have sinned already" and "have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness" and what does that mean in context?

Edited August 30, 2023 by JimmyB

[FreeGrace]

36 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

I agree, Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him.

It's call free will.  However, there are many dire warnings in the Bible regarding disobedience/unfaithfulness for the child of God.  God's discipline is painful, according to Heb 12:11.   

36 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:1l3) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord.

Please read the whole context in Matt 24.  That verse refers to the END of the tribulation, not what you say about end of your life.  

btw, Jesus also "said with His own mouth" this:  "whoever believes possesses eternal life" in John 5:24 and in 10:28 "with His own mouth" said this:  "I give them (believers) eternal life, and they SHALL NEVER PERISH".

Could you explain why you believe salvation can be lost IN SPITE of what Jesus said?

36 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

But let's take a look at what Paul says in (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law. (v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

OK, let's quote ALL of what Paul said about the law.

Rom 3-

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 

20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

See?  No one will be justified/saved by doing works of the law. 

36 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

 And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. (See exodus 20: 1-17) 

Don't you know that the whole point of the law was to prove to everyone that no one can live a perfect life?  In fact, the law was given to guide us to the Savior.  Gal 3:26

Rom 2-

6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Do you think these verses speak of the possibility of earning eternal life?  Clearly, v.7 is about earning eternal life by "persistence in doing good". 

However, the bulk of Romans 3 says that all have sinned and have "come short of the glory of God".  And 3:20 PROVES that no one will be justified by the law.

So why do you persist in ignoring all the verses that I've shared that directly refute your claims and have shown that what you quote doesn't support your ideas?

You haven't even tried to explain that any of the verses I quoted say something else.

You just ignore them and go merrily on your way.

Those who have never trusted solely on the work of Jesus Christ for salvation, without any works on their own part, are NOT SAVED.  

No one is saved if they think they have do earn their salvation, or even only part of it.

Only those who trust completely in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross are saved.

Think about it.

[Bro.Tan]

22 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

It's call free will.  However, there are many dire warnings in the Bible regarding disobedience/unfaithfulness for the child of God.  God's discipline is painful, according to Heb 12:11.   

Please read the whole context in Matt 24.  That verse refers to the END of the tribulation, not what you say about end of your life.  

btw, Jesus also "said with His own mouth" this:  "whoever believes possesses eternal life" in John 5:24 and in 10:28 "with His own mouth" said this:  "I give them (believers) eternal life, and they SHALL NEVER PERISH".

Could you explain why you believe salvation can be lost IN SPITE of what Jesus said?

OK, let's quote ALL of what Paul said about the law.

Rom 3-

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 

20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

See?  No one will be justified/saved by doing works of the law. 

Don't you know that the whole point of the law was to prove to everyone that no one can live a perfect life?  In fact, the law was given to guide us to the Savior.  Gal 3:26

Rom 2-

6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Do you think these verses speak of the possibility of earning eternal life?  Clearly, v.7 is about earning eternal life by "persistence in doing good". 

However, the bulk of Romans 3 says that all have sinned and have "come short of the glory of God".  And 3:20 PROVES that no one will be justified by the law.

So why do you persist in ignoring all the verses that I've shared that directly refute your claims and have shown that what you quote doesn't support your ideas?

You haven't even tried to explain that any of the verses I quoted say something else.

You just ignore them and go merrily on your way.

Those who have never trusted solely on the work of Jesus Christ for salvation, without any works on their own part, are NOT SAVED.  

No one is saved if they think they have do earn their salvation, or even only part of it.

Only those who trust completely in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross are saved.

Think about it.

We need to focus on one point at a time. So I'll start off with one of yours quotes Gal 3rd Chapter and explain my point of view according to the word of God in that chapter. Let's see what Paul says in (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself.

(v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. (1John 3:4)

(v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law. 

How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus. 

(v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster. 

And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law. 

 

 

 

[Bro.Tan]

22 hours ago, JimmyB said:

Speaking of copying-and-pasting what does this mean: "and lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed"? 

Particularly "I shall bewail many which have sinned already" and "have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness" and what does that mean in context?

Paul had to deal with people with these condition, committing sin. It looks like they knew better, because Pauls says, " and have not repented of," People have to repent, this was an appeal for repentance.

[garee]

On 8/30/2023 at 6:12 AM, FreeGrace said:

When Jesus spoke to the rich young ruler, He wasn't evangelizing the guy.  They guy wasn't even ready for it.  He thought he had been keeping the WHOLE law, since his youth.

However, Jesus told him what he lacked, and told him to give everything he owned to the poor and follow Him.  The guy left sad because he had great wealth.  What that showed was that he had been FAILNING to keep the FIRST commandment, which is to love the Lord His God with ALL of his heart, ALL of his mind, ALL of his soul and ALL of his strength, and love others as himself.

He loved his wealth MORE than anything else.  Proving he needed salvation, since all he really wanted was affirmation from the "good teacher".

If you think Jesus was telling him how to be saved, you have really missed the whole point of what Jesus did tell him.

If you disagree with me here, can you explain WHY you do?  What have I said that isn't true?  Thanks.

I would add to the mix.

The answer of Jesus the prophet the son of man when bowed down to in worship  .was why call me good master. One is the good teaching master God, not man  

The rich ruler given the understanding of God knew he fell  short of the glory of the perfect law .  while he thought he kept the letter of the law "death" (thou shalt not) .he did not .He had no power of the faith of Christ the justifier two law making one perfect law . the ust one Christ and the justifier Christ .from faith as a labor  to faith justification to justification  

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Two the number that God has spoke. . just, justifier 

.(1)  Let there be and (2)there was 

[FreeGrace]

14 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

We need to focus on one point at a time. So I'll start off with one of yours quotes Gal 3rd Chapter and explain my point of view according to the word of God in that chapter. Let's see what Paul says in (Gal. 3:1, 13, 16-17, 19, 24) (v.1) O FOOLISH Ga-la’-tians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? (v.13) Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, CURSED IS EVERYONE THAT HANGETH ON A TREE: What law is this talking about? Let the bible speak for itself.

(v.16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of One, AND TO THY SEED, which is Christ. (v.17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Now pay attention, the law that is being spoken of here came four hundred and thirty years after this covenant. But God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments). Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. (1John 3:4)

(v.19) Wherefore then serveth the law? A question is being asked here. Then why should we serve this law? It was added because of transgression, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; the law that we are talking about here was added because of sin. But we now know that sin is the transgression of the law. 

How do you add a law if sin is the transgression of the law? Because there are two sets of laws, you have God’s holy commandments which abided forever, and you had the animal sacrificial law which was added because of sin, but it was only good until the seed should come to whom the promise was made, and that seed was Jesus. 

(v.24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. This animal sacrificial law was only a schoolmaster. 

And this schoolmaster taught you that when you sinned in ignorance blood had to be shed (an animal sacrificed). But Christ being the ultimate sacrifice shed his precious blood once and for all, and by doing this putting an end to the animal sacrificial law. 

I guess I have just one question for you.  I have already shared what Jesus said about WHEN a person possesses eternal life, in John 5:24 (when they believe).  And I also shared what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life in John 10:28, which is "they shall NEVER PERISH".

It seems you just keep rejecting these things that Jesus said.

So, why?