The Problem With Evolution Part 2- Animals

[Sparks]

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

In the physical world, the sun is a big mass of thermonuclear reactions.    So that's what we have and always have had.    Of course, there won't be mornings or evenings in Heaven, either.

I am not talking about heaven, I am talking about the New Earth and no, our sun didn't exist until the fourth day.

[Sparks]

2 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

No.   I just showed you the etymology for universe.   

universe (n.)

1580s, "the whole world, cosmos, the totality of existing things," from Old French univers (12c.), from Latin universum "all things, everybody, all people, the whole world," noun use of neuter of adjective universus "all together, all in one, whole, entire, relating to all," literally "turned into one," from unus "one" (from PIE root *oi-no- "one, unique") + versus, past participle of vertere "to turn, turn back, be turned; convert, transform, translate; be changed" (from PIE root *wer- (2) "to turn, bend").also from 1580s

"Verse" and "universe" have a common root in proto-Indoeuropean, but the verse in "universe" has a different meaning.    "Verse" when used as a noun, refers to a line of poetry.

And I just showed you the Latin phrase.  Do you deny everything you see with your own eyes? 

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, Sparks said:

And I just showed you the Latin phrase.  Do you deny everything you see with your own eyes?

I'm just showing you how the word came to be.   It doesn't mean "one sentence." 

1580s, "the whole world, cosmos, the totality of existing things," from Old French univers (12c.), from Latin universum "all things, everybody, all people, the whole world,"

[Sparks]

Just now, The Barbarian said:

I'm just showing you how the word came to be.   It doesn't mean "one sentence." 

1580s, "the whole world, cosmos, the totality of existing things," from Old French univers (12c.), from Latin universum "all things, everybody, all people, the whole world,"

The Latin does.

[FreeGrace]

5 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

  FreeGrace said: 

Would be helpful to provide at least a citation for what you are referring to.  To simply "check your Bible" is hardly helpful.  I don't believe the words "protons" or "radar waves" are found in the Bible.

My point, exactly.  Lots of things like radar and evolution exist, but the Bible doesn't mention them.

Funny thing about words.  The way you worded your post suggested that you knew of verses that did mention protons and radar waves.  

But cars, now that's another thing.  The Bible does actually mention one.

Joshua 9:2 - that they gathered themselves together, to fight with Joshua and with Israel, with one accord.  {I've never seen fighting with a car before, but maybe this was the first case of "road rage"}

Acts 1:14 - These all with one accord continued stedfastly in prayer, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.  {a rather crowded car}

Acts 2:46 - And day by day, continuing stedfastly with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread at home, they took their food with gladness and singleness of heart, {I know the homeless often sleep in cars.  Maybe this is an example.}

Acts 4;24 - And they, when they heard it, lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, O Lord, thou that didst make the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that in them is:

Acts 5:12 - And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people: and they were all with one accord in Solomon’s porch.  {again, a rather crowded scene}

Acts 7:57 - But they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and rushed upon him with one accord;  {seems they wanted to run over Paul}

2 Cor 8:3 - For according to their power, I bear witness, yea and beyond their power, they gave of their own accord  {seems they were giving their car to the less fortunate}

[FreeGrace]

5 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

  FreeGrace said: 

The creation of earth along with the whole universe was spoken into existence, per Psa 33:6 and 9.

Even if God whispered the whole thing into existence, I'll bet there was a "big bang" when everything appeared immediately.

That was St. Augustine's understanding, and I think he was right.

That makes 3 of us, at least.   

[FreeGrace]

5 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

  FreeGrace said: 

So Ex 20:11 isn't literal either?

I don't see why repeating figurative verses would convert them to literal history.

By definition.   That's what the word means.

But that's my point.  He wasn't quoting Genesis 1.  It is clear Moses was telling the people some history, for perspective.  And anyway, Ex 20:11 is STILL referring to the restoration, and not original creation, as is neither Genesis 1:2ff about original creation.

[FreeGrace]

5 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

,  FreeGrace said: 

And all this is solved by understanding that God created the universe by spaking it into existence in a moment.  Then, much later, He restored the earth for man's use.

Of what use would the earth be with no light, no heat and no other planets; just a lone rock floating in nothingness?

Again, God didn't give any details about WHY or HOW the earth became an uninhabitable wasteland.  And whatever it was could certainly have effected (as in destroyed) things around the earth, like the sun, moon, planets.  Those kind of things.

There is simply no excuse for ignoring the meaning of words when the Bible DOES define itself.  And Jer 4:23 and Isa 34:11 clearly define WHAT "tohu wabohu" means, and also means in Gen 1:2.

The translators of the LXX translated "tohu" into the Greek word for "unsightly".  Is that how you envision how God begins His creation?  With just an ugly lump?  

And, explain HOW there is NO description of God changing (forming) the structure of the earth to "give it form".  It's all about what He put ON the earth.  That didn't change it's form one bit.

5 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

  The measurable time of the creation begins with the creation of light in verse 3.  However, since verses were added later to make the Bible easier to read, when it was written there WAS NO verse 2.  So the issue of long ages prior to the creation is meaningless. It's just n excuse to appease the Old Earth crowd.

No, the measurable time was for the restoration of earth.  The earth was created out of nothing immediately.  Psa 33:6,9

Edited December 31, 2023 by FreeGrace

[The Barbarian]

1 hour ago, Sparks said:

I am not talking about heaven, I am talking about the New Earth and no, our sun didn't exist until the fourth day.

Which is how we know it's figurative, not a literal history.   No sun, no morning.

 

[The Barbarian]

I'm just showing you how the word came to be.   It doesn't mean "one sentence." 

1580s, "the whole world, cosmos, the totality of existing things," from Old French univers (12c.), from Latin universum "all things, everybody, all people, the whole world,"

3 hours ago, Sparks said:

The Latin does.

No.   "Universe" is a Latin word, but it translates into English as "universally."

https://translate.google.com/?sl=la&tl=en&text=universe&op=translate