The Barbarian Posted February 7 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,051 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 969 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 7 5 hours ago, Sparks said: You are so mixed up about this one wonders if you simply post deliberately provocative messages for no other reason than to cause maximum disruption and argument in a thread, since your arguments rarely make sense. I doubt whether you care if you are right or wrong about your arguments when you post them. You lose any debate when you turn to insults. It's the weakest argument of all. 41 minutes ago, Sparks said: How was that an insult? You seriously don't know? Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted February 8 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,159 Content Per Day: 2.04 Reputation: 2,513 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/20/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8 49 minutes ago, The Barbarian said: You seriously don't know? Really? Do you object to the argument? Your postings do match a pattern, and I think you have to admit you rarely agree with anyone about anything. I don't think it is possible to disagree so often, normally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_Wizard Posted February 8 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 738 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 313 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/05/1962 Share Posted February 8 11 hours ago, Sparks said: Your postings do match a pattern, and I think you have to admit you rarely agree with anyone about anything. I don't think it is possible to disagree so often, normally. How can one be in agreement with Bible believing Christians when many of the significant events in the Bible are written off as allegory? How does one see only a portion of a verse and ignore the last sentence where it is made clear that the evening and the morning were one day? How does one propose a local flood on low lying ground with easy access to the sea? How does one give the identical arguments to those posted on atheist websites and yet proclaim the salvation of Christ? Why would someone spend his time trying to convince Christians that their Bible is not true? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 8 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.94 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8 1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said: How does one see only a portion of a verse and ignore the last sentence where it is made clear that the evening and the morning were one day? A question, if a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day to the Lord then how long were the first 7 days? For that matter, how long are 70 weeks? I think it is a mistake to place limitations on God and his actions by applying our faulty ability to understand to his word. We usually end up believing whatever pleases us at the time when we do and overlooking the truth of the Word as we are meant to understand it. Just something I think about sometimes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted February 8 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,159 Content Per Day: 2.04 Reputation: 2,513 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/20/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8 3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: How can one be in agreement with Bible believing Christians when many of the significant events in the Bible are written off as allegory? How does one see only a portion of a verse and ignore the last sentence where it is made clear that the evening and the morning were one day? How does one propose a local flood on low lying ground with easy access to the sea? How does one give the identical arguments to those posted on atheist websites and yet proclaim the salvation of Christ? Why would someone spend his time trying to convince Christians that their Bible is not true? Yes. And why build a large boat and pack it with animals for a 'local flood' when a solution to that 'crisis' would be to lead the animals away from the area on a short walk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted February 8 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,159 Content Per Day: 2.04 Reputation: 2,513 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/20/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8 2 hours ago, FJK said: A question, if a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day to the Lord then how long were the first 7 days? When you take a passage written in a different context and topic, and try to apply it to something like the time-table for evolution theory, you will always get the wrong answer. To begin, you misquoted it: 2 Peter 3:8 (KJV) But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Then you have ignored the context about Jesus being away. That is what is being talked about. If you read the whole passage it mentions a time when scoffers will come and claim that the Lord Jesus will never return, as promised, because he has not already returned in all these long years. The idea Peter is trying to convey is that God's time-table is not like ours, and that both a thousand years and a day are a tiny amount of time that make no difference to Him. Peter is saying that God will return on His own time table, Peter is not saying that when the Bible says a day, it means a thousand years or trillions. Don't say that you believe in Evolution Theory, and then go looking for hints of it in the Bible taking just one line that you think acknowledges it. That is called an a priori fallacy in the first place, and in the second place, the Bible will tell you what it means if you read it in the proper context. That means read all of 2 Peter 3, not just one sentence from it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 8 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.94 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, Sparks said: To begin, you misquoted it: 2 Peter 3:8 (KJV) But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. I didn't misquote it, I didn't give a scriptural reference, just the gist of what was said. If the Bible doesn't mean the same thing every time the same term is used, then the Bible needs to be revised to make it more consistent and understandable, otherwise it just becomes mystical stuff that means whatever the reader wants it to mean according to his desire at the time. Something I'm thinking about, something that is important in relation to Jesus saying not to allow ourselves to be deceived (and knowing that deceptions can be either very complex or very simple in nature, as a con artist can use both a short or long con to accomplish his goal so can Satan). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted February 8 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,159 Content Per Day: 2.04 Reputation: 2,513 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/20/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8 18 minutes ago, FJK said: I didn't misquote it, I didn't give a scriptural reference, just the gist of what was said. If the Bible doesn't mean the same thing every time the same term is used, then the Bible needs to be revised to make it more consistent and understandable, otherwise it just becomes mystical stuff that means whatever the reader wants it to mean according to his desire at the time. Something I'm thinking about, something that is important in relation to Jesus saying not to allow ourselves to be deceived (and knowing that deceptions can be either very complex or very simple in nature, as a con artist can use both a short or long con to accomplish his goal so can Satan). You can read the Bible and allow it to speak to you, or you can inject your own opinions or biases into it. It is the difference between eisegesis, and exegesis which are two conflicting ways to read the Bible. One is the correct way, and one is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 8 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.94 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8 16 minutes ago, Sparks said: You can read the Bible and allow it to speak to you, or you can inject your own opinions or biases into it. The Bible can be read is such a manner that it means anything anyone wants it to mean according to there desires. This is the popular thing to do today, just interpret it to mean what you want it to to justify your personal wishes (otherwise there wouldn't be so much contentious disagreement among Churches and Christians as is even evident here on this forum. Or you can skip all that basically irrelevant stuff as regards daily living as a Christian representing Christ on this earth and do the things it tells you to do, Jesus said you can do the things he did, even commanded it as such, do you do them? Those I see doing them in real life are those I look to as knowing more than I do and seek to learn from them, others are really just a distraction from doing what Jesus told us to do. This is how I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted February 8 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,159 Content Per Day: 2.04 Reputation: 2,513 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/20/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8 14 minutes ago, FJK said: The Bible can be read is such a manner that it means anything anyone wants it to mean according to there desires. This is the popular thing to do today, just interpret it to mean what you want it to to justify your personal wishes (otherwise there wouldn't be so much contentious disagreement among Churches and Christians as is even evident here on this forum. Or you can skip all that basically irrelevant stuff as regards daily living as a Christian representing Christ on this earth and do the things it tells you to do, Jesus said you can do the things he did, even commanded it as such, do you do them? Those I see doing them in real life are those I look to as knowing more than I do and seek to learn from them, others are really just a distraction from doing what Jesus told us to do. This is how I see it. The rules of Hermeneutics and allowing the Bible to speak to a person through the what the original authors meant to say (exegesis) will allow a person to arrive at the correct answer. Most of all, it is the Holy Spirit within a person who has accepted the Gift of Salvation that helps a person to understand what they are reading. People who are still unsaved would struggle to understand the Bible (those without the Holy Spirit indwelling them), and Earthy interpretations. That is where the difference in interpretations come in. Notice this scripture about those born again an saved, understanding: 1 John 2:27 (NLT) But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true--it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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