RV_Wizard Posted February 10 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 738 Content Per Day: 0.80 Reputation: 313 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/05/1962 Share Posted February 10 21 hours ago, The Barbarian said: By definition, literal mornings and evenings require a sun to have them. There was no sun the first three "days." This has been explained to you so many times you either cannot be educated or the truth is not within you. Light was created the first day. Maybe that light was the sun and the universe was re-structured on day four. The sun and moon were not thus named in Genesis 1. Even on day four and after they were just called lights. So there was clearly light from the beginning to create the evening and the morning. Your statement is 100% false. As for your hero Augustine, the Orthodox church lists eight heresies that he professed. Teaching against Genesis 1 would be nine. In conclusion we may honestly say that because the Orthodox Church never officially carried out the condemnation made by some of our saints, fathers and monastics upon this Bishop of Hippo, his teachings have now come to form heresies even larger than the Latin Church itself. Yet as the Russian New Martyr Archbishop Hilarion Troitsky commented: “We can only thank God that the doctrine of the Eastern Church was formulated outside the sphere of Augustinianism, which we must consider as alien to us.” source 21 hours ago, The Barbarian said: As you see, the first time it's used in scripture it doesn't mean a literal day. You're merely assuming what you proposed to prove. Likewise, you assumed without any attempt to justify the assumption, that if Moses cites Genesis 1, that converts it to a literal history. So you believe that Moses, not God, carved the stone tablets and engraved the commandments upon them? The heresies you put forth make Augustine look like a slacker. Are there any parts of the Bible you actually believe? Could you list them? It would be a shorter list than the parts you refuse to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 10 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.94 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10 2 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: . Light was created the first day. Common science looks at light as something requiring a physical source to generate it such as the sun and doesn't consider that it can exist by itself independent of or even prior to a source that generates it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted February 10 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,051 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 969 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Online Share Posted February 10 By definition, literal mornings and evenings require a sun to have them. There was no sun the first three "days." 28 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: This has been explained to you so many times you either cannot be educated or the truth is not within you. It's just that your excuses don't hold water. By definition, there can be no mornings and evening without a sun. If you have to redefine words to make your new doctrines work, that's a very good sign you should give up and let it be God's way. 29 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: As for your hero Augustine, the Orthodox church lists eight heresies that he professed. Teaching against Genesis 1 would be nine. Some renegade theologians made those claims. But... The Place of Blessed Augustine in the Orthodox Church. By Seraphim Rose. Introduction by Alexey Young. California: Saint Herman of Alaska Press, 1982. Paperbound. Pp. 45 + addenda. In certain ultra-conservative Orthodox circles in the United States, there has developed an unfortunate bitter and harsh attitude toward one of the great Fathers of the Church, the blessed (Saint) Augustine of Hippo (354-430 A.D.). These circles, while clearly outside the mainstream of Orthodox thought and careful scholarship, have often been so vociferous and forceful in their statements that their views have touched and even affected more moderate and stable Orthodox believers and thinkers. Not a few writers and spiritual aspirants have been disturbed by this trend. So it is that I am absolutely delighted to have a copy of Father Seraphim's small, but powerful, tome on the significance and status of Saint Augustine in the Orthodox Church. His book is particularly significant since it comes from the pen of a spiritual writer, who, before his untimely death in 1982, was a chief advocate of moderation and careful, charitable thinking about the Church and her Fathers among some of the most conservative Orthodox elements in this country—an advocacy that earned him, more often than not, the flat condemnation of the ultra-conservative factionalists mentioned above. https://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/augustine/bless_aug.htm Blessed Augustine of Hippo: His Place in the Orthodox Church A Corrective Compilation An Article from Orthodox Tradition http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/bless_aug.aspx You've been fooled again. 38 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: So you believe that Moses, not God, carved the stone tablets and engraved the commandments upon them? You don't believe that Moses wrote Genesis, inspired by God? Darn. But I'd be open to your claim that if God cites a figurative part of scripture, that converts it to a literal history. What do you have? Are there any parts of the Bible you actually believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted February 10 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,159 Content Per Day: 2.04 Reputation: 2,513 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/20/2016 Status: Online Share Posted February 10 3 hours ago, FJK said: Common science looks at light as something requiring a physical source to generate it such as the sun and doesn't consider that it can exist by itself independent of or even prior to a source that generates it. I think you mean scientists. Science cannot 'look' at anything, anymore than a screwdriver can, because science is simply a tool. Revelation is a book about the end and a new beginning, but it gives us a clue about the beginning of it all. God was the illumination then, and will be in our future. When God said 'Let there be light,' light came into existence along with gravity and the laws of physics, electricity and the various properties of the universe. God didn't work in the dark simply because He created our sun later; He is light. He can count the hours and call it a 24 hour day, for our sake and understanding. In the future, for those saved, there will be no night. Revelation 21:23 (NKJV) The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. Revelation 21:25 (KJV) And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 10 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.94 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10 7 minutes ago, Sparks said: I think you mean scientists. Science cannot 'look' at anything, anymore than a screwdriver can, because science is simply a tool. Revelation is a book about the end and a new beginning, but it gives us a clue about the beginning of it all. God was the illumination then, and will be in our future. When God said 'Let there be light,' light came into existence along with gravity and the laws of physics, electricity and the various properties of the universe. God didn't work in the dark simply because He created our sun later; He is light. He can count the hours and call it a 24 hour day, for our sake and understanding. In the future, for those saved, there will be no night. Revelation 21:23 (NKJV) The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. Revelation 21:25 (KJV) And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. You realize this is drifting toward Jewish esoteric thought (Hasidism, Zohar) and away from the worldly restrictions of scientific thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted February 10 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,159 Content Per Day: 2.04 Reputation: 2,513 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/20/2016 Status: Online Share Posted February 10 2 hours ago, FJK said: You realize this is drifting toward Jewish esoteric thought (Hasidism, Zohar) and away from the worldly restrictions of scientific thought? No, it is not but God Almighty is the same God the Jews worship. The Jews were chosen by Him, first. Now Kabbalah is black magic, and evil. If you cannot tell the difference between the Bible and the Zohar, I guess that would explain your confusion about most of this topic, but God and his ways are supernatural. As for the restrictions of science, the only restriction of science (the tool) is that it can only be used to test and observe things in the natural world. When Jesus brought people back from the dead, healed the sick, walked on water, science (the tool) would fail you because those things were supernatural. It might do you some good to study what science, isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 10 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.94 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10 4 minutes ago, Sparks said: Now Kabbalah is black magic, and evil. It can be used that way, the same way Witchcraft can use Christian concepts and principles for evil purpose. But it can also be used to study and grow closer in understanding and relationship with God. As an analogy, the study of nuclear functions can produce either atom bombs for destruction or medical devices and treatments to heal people. Like anything else, the intent of the person using it, be it knowledge or device, determines its outcome. This is my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted February 10 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,159 Content Per Day: 2.04 Reputation: 2,513 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/20/2016 Status: Online Share Posted February 10 7 minutes ago, FJK said: It can be used that way, the same way Witchcraft can use Christian concepts and principles for evil purpose. But it can also be used to study and grow closer in understanding and relationship with God. As an analogy, the study of nuclear functions can produce either atom bombs for destruction or medical devices and treatments to heal people. Like anything else, the intent of the person using it, be it knowledge or device, determines its outcome. This is my experience. If you are reading the Zohar and practicing Kabbalah, you are practicing black magic. The people who practice Kabbalah believe God is both good and evil, which is their first huge mistake. They try to enter Heaven without God or his permission, and are trying to study the words God used to create the Universe, to try to be God. If you are studying that Satanic garbage, I would strongly suggest you not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 10 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.94 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 10 2 minutes ago, Sparks said: If you are reading the Zohar and practicing Kabbalah, you are practicing black magic. The people who practice Kabbalah believe God is both good and evil, which is their first huge mistake. They try to enter Heaven without God or his permission, and are trying to study the words God used to create the Universe, to try to be God. If you are studying that Satanic garbage, I would strongly suggest you not. I don't practice Kabbalah, but I do study some of it to understand the thinking of Jews. Remember that Jesus was a Jew and spoke of the secrets of the Kingdom of God, do you think he was speaking idle words? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted February 10 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,159 Content Per Day: 2.04 Reputation: 2,513 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/20/2016 Status: Online Share Posted February 10 Just now, FJK said: I don't practice Kabbalah, but I do study some of it to understand the thinking of Jews. Remember that Jesus was a Jew and spoke of the secrets of the Kingdom of God, do you think he was speaking idle words? I don't think anyone who reads the Zohar agrees on anything about it nor masters it, and while God allows you freewill choices, you should use them wisely. The only god you will get closer to in reading the Zohar, is Satan; the god of this world (little g). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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