The Barbarian Posted February 13 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,082 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 974 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 13 12 minutes ago, Scott Free said: That is a good point. I would not dare say they are not Christians filled with the Holy Spirit. What seems to happen is these kinds of debates bring out the worst in people, degrading into domineering narcissist displays of frustration. I value bluntness, but sometimes, it boils over into something worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Free Posted February 13 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 88 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 290 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 13 (edited) 4 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: What He did validate was that the Scriptures are the inspired words of God and every word therein is true My dear brother. We know only a portion of the truth, and what we say about God is always incomplete. I hear you saying that you are at the peak of what is possible to understand. I should follow lock step with your perception of the complete truth, because I will not find a greater spokesperson. I have learned from painful experience that using words like "in my opinion," or "I could be wrong," helps cure this maladjustment Edited February 13 by Scott Free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Free Posted February 13 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 88 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 290 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Barbarian said: I value bluntness, but sometimes, it boils over into something worse. Yeah, I got a strike for this once. Have come close to doing it again multiple times. It is hard for me to catch the reaction in real time. slaps on the face really helps. Edited February 13 by Scott Free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Free Posted February 13 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 88 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 290 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 13 (edited) 4 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: Neither are correct. Everyone is limited in understanding the Father's work. "For we know in part and prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away with. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully, just as I also have been fully known. But now faith, hope, and love remain, these three; but the [c]greatest of these is love." I Corinthians 13:9-113 Edited February 13 by Scott Free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_Wizard Posted February 14 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 776 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 331 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/05/1962 Share Posted February 14 11 hours ago, The Barbarian said: Actually, every educated person in the Mediterranean world had known the world was round, long before Christ was born. About 200 BC, Eratosthenes showed how big the globe was to a very accurate number. ... though it was established in the 3rd century that the earth was indeed round, the idea wasn’t widely accepted until around the 15th century. People cannot be blamed, of course, as they were naive and there were no satellite photos to convince them of Earth’s actual shape, so they relied on their observations. Also, science was understandable and accessible only to the elite during that time, which further reduced acceptance of the idea. source Once again, you attempt to divert the subject by interjecting something that is just plain wrong. 11 hours ago, The Barbarian said: Actually Darwin didn't make that claim. Darwin isn't the one here arguing that observed speciation validates claims of a common original progenitor. Once again, I don't believe I mentioned Darwin by name. Deflect, deflect deflect. I was referring to evolutionists such as you and others who post in these forums that humans and daffodils share ancestry. 11 hours ago, The Barbarian said: And yet you insist that God did just that in Genesis. You are just the world champion strawman attacker, aren't you? If you think that the book of Genesis conforms to science you really don't understand either. God wasn't telling us how the laws of physics were employed during the creation, He was making sure we understand that NOTHING in the creation conformed to the laws of physics. That is the definition of a miracle. If it's possible, it's not a miracle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_Wizard Posted February 14 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 776 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 331 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/05/1962 Share Posted February 14 9 hours ago, Scott Free said: My dear brother. We know only a portion of the truth, and what we say about God is always incomplete. I hear you saying that you are at the peak of what is possible to understand. We only know a portion of the truth if we don't believe the word of God. If we read the word and believe it, then we know exactly how God created the world. God told us very specifically how the universe was created. Genesis one is written as a narrative. The Fourth Commandment confirms that God created the world in six days. No mystery. Nothing incomplete. Evolution believers are just unwilling to admit that their belief is direst contradiction to God's word. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted February 14 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,082 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 974 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 14 32 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: That is the definition of a miracle. If it's possible, it's not a miracle. Actually, every educated person in the Mediterranean world had known the world was round, long before Christ was born. About 200 BC, Eratosthenes showed how big the globe was to a very accurate number. 19 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: ... though it was established in the 3rd century that the earth was indeed round, the idea wasn’t widely accepted until around the 15th century. People cannot be blamed, of course, as they were naive and there were no satellite photos to convince them of Earth’s actual shape, so they relied on their observations. Also, science was understandable and accessible only to the elite during that time, which further reduced acceptance of the idea. source You've been misled by people who know no more than you... In 1492, Christopher Columbus was shocked when his ship made landfall in a land Europeans had never explored. Along the way, he proved that Earth isn’t flat after all. Right? Wrong: Despite a persistent legend, neither Columbus nor his Spanish patrons thought Earth was a finite plane instead of a round planet. And you can blame one of the United States’ greatest authors for creating a myth that still surrounds one of history’s best-known figures. When Columbus set sail in 1492, he predicted he’d make landfall in Asia. Legend has it that he defied Spanish officials to do so, sailing west instead of East because he was certain the world was round. ... There’s just one problem: It’s almost certain that in the 1490s, nobody thought the earth was flat. According to historian Jeffrey Burton Russell, “no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the Earth was flat.” That was thanks to scientists, philosophers and mathematicians who, as early as around 600 B.C., made observations that Earth was round. Using calculations based on the sun’s rise and fall, shadows and other physical properties of the planet, Greek scholars like Pythagoras and Aristotle determined that the planet is actually a sphere. During Columbus’ time, educated people carefully studied knowledge passed down by the ancient Greeks. Thus, it’s nearly impossible—and completely implausible—that rich Spaniards of the late 15th century thought Columbus would fall off the edge of the map. However, Columbus ran into resistance when he tried to get funding for his landmark journey for a different reason. He mistakenly believed that the circumference of Earth was very small and that by traveling west toward what he thought was China, he’d open up new trade routes. ... The legend doesn’t even date from Columbus’ own lifetime. Rather, it was invented in 1828, when Washington Irving published The Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus. Irving, a master storyteller, was already famous for tales like “Rip Van Winkle” and “The Legend of Sleepy Hollow” when he tackled the life of Columbus. His inspiration came after his friend, Alexander Hill Everett, the United States’ minister to Spain, invited Irving to stay with him in Madrid. While visiting the city, Irving was tempted by a giganticarchive of documents about Columbus and decided to write the explorer’s biography. The archive may have been extensive, but Irving couldn’t help from adding fictional flourishes to Columbus’ already fascinating life. Crucially, he claimed that when the explorer told Spanish geographers the earth was not actually flat, they refused to believe him, even questioning his faith and endangering his life. https://www.history.com/news/christopher-columbus-never-set-out-to-prove-the-earth-was-round 24 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: Darwin isn't the one here arguing that observed speciation validates claims of a common original progenitor. Neither is anyone else. Genetics confirmed common descent by DNA analysis. As you learned earlier, Darwin never made that claim, since he had no evidence to confirm it. Nor did science until we learned the functions of DNA. 26 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: I was referring to evolutionists such as you and others who post in these forums that humans and daffodils share ancestry. Turns out plants and animals are eukaryotes that do indeed show common ancestry. And we can test the methodology by using it on individuals and populations of known descent. 27 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: You are just the world champion strawman attacker, aren't you? If you think that the book of Genesis conforms to science Well, that's a strawman. It's not hard to attack your strawmen; they are so obviously false. Genesis is consistent with the things science has discovered. Genesis no more conforms to science than it conforms to plumbing. Nevertheless, science and plumbing are true. 29 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: God wasn't telling us how the laws of physics were employed during the creation, He was making sure we understand that NOTHING in the creation conformed to the laws of physics. He created the laws of physics at the beginning. He made the Earth so that it would bring forth life, as He says it did. Why would you deny something He makes so very clear? 27 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: That is the definition of a miracle. If it's possible, it's not a miracle. Since miracles happen, they are by definition, possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Free Posted February 14 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 88 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 290 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 14 2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: No mystery. Nothing incomplete. If that works for you fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Free Posted February 14 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 88 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,276 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 290 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 14 (edited) 17 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: We only know a portion of the truth if we don't believe the word of God. I take a strict exegesis approach to the New Testament. I think the Old Testament has many layers of meaning that can only be learned with time and experience, requiring a mixed approach of both literal and allegorical interpretation. I am only questioning the level of awareness the creation stories are catering to. Edited February 14 by Scott Free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_Wizard Posted February 15 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 776 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 331 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/05/1962 Share Posted February 15 23 hours ago, The Barbarian said: Actually, every educated person in the Mediterranean world had known the world was round, long before Christ was born. Like most of what you say, this also is wrong. Galileo Galilei is often credited as the man who finally proved that the Earth is round. But, like Pythagoras and Eratosthenes before him, Galileo didn’t actually “discover” that the Earth was a globe. He just provided more evidence to support the idea. In 1609, Galileo heard about a new invention called the telescope. He built his own version of the telescope and pointed it at the night sky. source So, was Christ born after 1609? By the way, Columbus thought the earth was pear shaped. 23 hours ago, The Barbarian said: Neither is anyone else. Genetics confirmed common descent by DNA analysis. Hogwash. All evolution proponents point toward observed speciation as evidence of common descent, yourself included on many occasions. The fact is, common descent never happened. We were created by God an in the image of God. 23 hours ago, The Barbarian said: Turns out plants and animals are eukaryotes that do indeed show common ancestry. Turns out that's a lie. Turns out that plants were created on day three, fishes and birds on day five, and land dwelling animals on day six. Turns out that the ultimate truth of the universe is the word of God, not the theories of man. Turns out that the son of God, who was present at the beginning of time, taught that the Scriptures were the inspired word of God. Thus, when those those study science contradict the Bible, the Bible is the ultimate authority on what is true. 23 hours ago, The Barbarian said: Genesis is consistent with the things science has discovered.... He made the Earth so that it would bring forth life, as He says it did.... It is not possible to debate someone with no regard whatever for the truth. Genesis describes the special creation of three types of living things prior to the creation of man, and all happening within a four day period. You claim it happened over billions of years, and humans share ancestry with daffodils. You call that CONSISTENT??? The truth is not within you. This is concluded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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