Archetypes and Applications- I Know, It sounds Boring, Bear with Me

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

1 minute ago, FJK said:

I hear people say the same thing about the New Testament, that that was then and thios is now so we need to do things differently now because it was not intended to be applied to modern life.

The Pope is an example of this, as are many of the great preachers we see on television on Sunday morning.

Something to think seriously about.

Then why would those people bother to read the bible at all. In the OT, nearly everything was directed to the nation of Israel and Jewish people. The NT is for the Church, which does also include Jews who are of the church. Specifically the letters of Paul are like our Law. Paul lays out EXACTLY how Christians are to live and how churches are to function. It's DEFINITELY relevant to EVERY Christian today. 

 

The pope is a made up job that has not one word of scriptural support. He is a false christian in my book and likely the false prophet whenever Antichrist appears. 

Most Sunday TV preachers are in it for the money in my opinion. How could they not be when they are millionaires? Many of them teach heretical teachings, and since most Christians don't read their bibles, they don't recognize false teaching when they hear it. 

[Starise]

11 hours ago, AFlameOfFire said:

I can relate to a little of what you are saying. Some stories might sound good, but upon re-examinaton things are often stretched for good story telling. I don't have an apreciation for stories because of that, I treat them all as a fiction. I prefer common themes that run throughout scripture but not so much things on any personal (or private) level. Its not that I cannot receive from the Spirit personally from them its just they arent often presented to me in any kind of personal way (that I, before Christ) would have both opted for or would have expected, however that doesn't make any revelation received by him less impactful at all. Not sure if your following me, because I am horrible at finding words. I am taking up studying 3 words a day in the dictionary in the hopes that finding just the right words will help.

No I get it.If the bible only tells us about how God deals with the Jews, I don't see that as closely applicable to individuals. When we are talking about a nation collectively, there's no way everyone in that nation is 100% the same in terms of their committments to God, yet God uses these collective systems to bring about personal safety or judgement whichever the case may be. The ones who were loyal in the midst of a perverse nation, even if it was Israel, are generally safe in scripture, referencing Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, not their real Jewish names, also Joseph and others.Others were killed for the cause i.e. Steven and John the Baptist.God also takes people, like Rahab and saves them. Rahab was in Jesus's lineage. She probably never would have been looked at like a follower of God, but she assisted and helped to save God's men and this granted her life in a city doomed for destruction.

There is a duality in some of this, God is the same at all times, but one aspect of Him seems to be that He decides to flip or flop based on His plans and ultimate outcomes. The fact that God looked after some people who thought they were hopeless shows a God who deals individually as well. Hagar, who was likely Egyptian was sent away, but God had not forgotten her, and she would be the mother of all Arabs. This should be a clear signal to those who think God favors some over others. It seems God pursues the unloved and the unlikely. I believe we can make that application from Hagar on the personal level, and Niniveh collectively. Now what would make a pagan nation accept a Jewish God and even feel great remorse over their deeds is something of a mystery to me. At that time there were certainly stories circulating around about the conquests of Israel because of their God, and maybe that's the best answer. They feared that God. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

[FJK]

2 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Paul lays out EXACTLY how Christians are to live and how churches are to function. It's DEFINITELY relevant to EVERY Christian today. 

I hear many people that say it isn't, it was only meant for the Church and people of 2000 years ago and needs updated understanding.

I'm not among them, but I'm not among those that think the Old Testament is not relevant to the Church and people of today either since I see them both as as being inseparable and coming from God as instructions on living for us to apply to our lives.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

3 hours ago, AnOrangeCat said:

You're not the only one. Sometimes I do think people are trying a little too hard to fit a square peg into a round hole or they're just on a really different wavelength from the rest of us, either culturally or personally. Sometimes you can tune into it and you end up finding something weird yet wonderful but a lot of the time it's just weird.

We as a church have strayed from the strict literal bible interpretation that the church held for so many centuries. In today's new "progressive" age, people throw out the rules of interpretation so they can make up whatever interpretation they want. I notice an odd creepy interest in trying to find hidden meanings in scripture and even pastors trying to read between the lines or rejecting biblical truth in favor of symbolism. 

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

5 minutes ago, FJK said:

I hear many people that say it isn't, it was only meant for the Church and people of 2000 years ago and needs updated understanding.

I'm not among them, but I'm not among those that think the Old Testament is not relevant to the Church and people of today either since I see them both as as being inseparable and coming from God as instructions on living for us to apply to our lives.

Like I said, if Paul's writings don't apply to the modern church, then the whole bible should be thrown out. In my opinion, the people who try to say that Paul's writings aren't relevant today are clearly uncomfortable with his writings. He wrote something that is convicting them or cramping their style in how they want to live. His 2 particular things that are under intense attack in the church is his writings on homosexuality and women's roles in the church. 

 

The OT is history, so it can be tricky to apply it to today. Obviously there are great lessons in history that can be applied to today, but we must be careful not to twist things to make them say what we want. Obviously the Laws of Moses are a controversial  issue between those who think we are still supposed to follow those laws and those who think we aren't. 

 

If you have time, perhaps you could give me an example of something in the OT that you also apply to modern life. 

[Starise]

15 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

We as a church have strayed from the strict literal bible interpretation that the church held for so many centuries. In today's new "progressive" age, people throw out the rules of interpretation so they can make up whatever interpretation they want. I notice an odd creepy interest in trying to find hidden meanings in scripture and even pastors trying to read between the lines or rejecting biblical truth in favor of symbolism. 

I would be concerned if they are taking an agenda front and center, then attempting to marry it to scripture. 

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

7 minutes ago, Starise said:

I would be concerned if they are taking an agenda front and center, then attempting to marry it to scripture. 

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that. Do you mean how some people will claim we have the wrong translation of a word and try to give an alternate definition that removes the criticism of the bible? I see LGBT trying to do that alot today. 

[FJK]

4 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

If you have time, perhaps you could give me an example of something in the OT that you also apply to modern life. 

Ezekiel 33:6 ESV  "But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, so that the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any one of them, that person is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand."

 

To me in my life, it tells me to warn those calling themselves Christian but who embrace and accept sin of their error so that they may address it and avoid the danger it presents them, and to tell the non-Christians of God's rules for life and what they face without obeying them, after that I am not responsible for the choices they make but if I have failed to do so and accepted their sinful ways instead then I am also guilty of them as much as they are.

All Christians have this calling, it is the spreading of the Gospel to the nations so they can be saved.

That's one example, do you have as specific problem you are dealing with that you are needing and looking for an answer to?  You will find that answer in the Bible if you look for it and are willing to accept what is said.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

8 minutes ago, FJK said:

Ezekiel 33:6 ESV  "But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, so that the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any one of them, that person is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand."

 

To me in my life, it tells me to warn those calling themselves Christian but who embrace and accept sin of their error so that they may address it and avoid the danger it presents them, and to tell the non-Christians of God's rules for life and what they face without obeying them, after that I am not responsible for the choices they make but if I have failed to do so and accepted their sinful ways instead then I am also guilty of them as much as they are.

All Christians have this calling, it is the spreading of the Gospel to the nations so they can be saved.

That's one example, do you have as specific problem you are dealing with that you are needing and looking for an answer to?  You will find that answer in the Bible if you look for it and are willing to accept what is said.

I think you may be right that this could be applied to today, however the original meaning of this passage was for Israel during a time of war. But yes, application I think is relevant for today about being your brother's keeper and looking out for each other and warning each other. 

You seem to apply it to evangelism, which I could agree with ( I don't know a single believer face to face that evangelizes ) but it could also apply to warning a brother when they stray into sin and danger.

 

Great example. Thank you for that.

[Ray12614]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

My pastor is on a track that uses expository preaching with applicational approaches using famous reformed authors like Ligon Duncan, RC Sproul and others similar, often with some short personal application, life experiences etc. 

He generally manages to pull a lot from a text, but lately we've been in geneologies and admittedly that's a difficult one to find applications for. To his credit, he doesn't dance around controversial texts. His applications are usually very well done.

I always liked the story of Jonah because it shows a ray of light to us Greeks ( as we were referred to back then), even the pagan ones.

But given my very analytical approaches, I had to play devil's advocate and ask why God destroyed some pagan nations with apparently no prior evangelism, and others, such as Nineveh were high on the Lord's priority list. Some commentators say that story was a parable addition, and if true it takes some air out of my balloon. I personally don't see support for it not being true as a real story. Why didn't God reach out to all pagan nations in a similar way. There's something to chew on

I like your application here. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 tells us ALL scripture is profitable for us. The question is, are we always rightly dividing it? I think God's behavior shows us a lot about His personality if we want to call it that, His traits, the way He responds to any given thing. All of the bible applies to us. The question is, how does it apply and in what contexts? The Lord used Himself as a fallback example to His chosen people when He reminded them later on what He had done in their behalf, but I largely see that as relational things to His chosen, even though we can glean some applications from it. WE are His chosen now in that all have been added to the tree. The Jewish people hold maybe a special place there.

We know a few things about Him. He is patient to a fault with those He loves, but when that patience is expended, look out. Noone wants to be there. He made things to work in a flow with Himself in obedience to His ways, and anything else is setting itself up against Him. It is a mystery how He brings some around who were hardened, like Saul, and gives me great hope for those we all know in similar situations.

 

 

Well ……. In my case I would have to say no I don’t always correctly interpret the scripture correctly. But when I find it out I have stood up and corrected myself. I try to avoid areas that I don’t understand but occasionally stray into them. 
 

regarding Jonah the last verse of the book God explains why he spared the city. I do know that God will never have to apologize for his decisions regarding how he deals with nations or cities. He has the complete picture while we see only parts of it. 

regarding Saul and other hard headed knuckleheads like me I thank God for his patience and mercy he has given me. 
 

thanks for your reply!

Grace and peace……. Ray