WordSword Posted February 11 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 168 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,161 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 645 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 11 13 hours ago, NConly said: James 2 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Jews who reject Christ must keep whole law. The old Law never applied to Gentiles. Yes, Jesus kept the Law (the Law included the Decalogue which initiated the Law) Himself, and He is the only One that could keep the Law. All others could only obey it but could not keep it. Keeping the Law could only be established by the obedience of One being sinless. Forgiveness came only from the priests sin sacrifices (Num 15:15). Of course the Law was finally "fulfilled" by Christ when He said "It is finished" and the new covenant was established after "taking away" the old covenant (Heb 10:9). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NConly Posted February 11 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,335 Content Per Day: 2.78 Reputation: 614 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11 1 hour ago, WordSword said: Yes, Jesus kept the Law (the Law included the Decalogue which initiated the Law) Himself, and He is the only One that could keep the Law. All others could only obey it but could not keep it. Keeping the Law could only be established by the obedience of One being sinless. Forgiveness came only from the priests sin sacrifices (Num 15:15). Of course the Law was finally "fulfilled" by Christ when He said "It is finished" and the new covenant was established after "taking away" the old covenant (Heb 10:9). I do agree. And thanks for Num 15 I was looking for that I knew that sojourners were to also obey the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordSword Posted February 12 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 168 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,161 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 645 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 12 10 hours ago, FJK said: To make it as direct as I know how without listing each individual law given in Torah, when the Law was set aside are you meaning all the laws of the Bible (In the Torah, the first Five books of the OT) or just some of them? Yes, all are discontinued, and all that presently remains is the New covenant or the Gospel. The Decalogue began the Mosaic Law, which is the Pentateuch (as you said). The Torah is also the same as the Pentateuch.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NConly Posted February 12 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,335 Content Per Day: 2.78 Reputation: 614 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12 10 hours ago, WordSword said: Yes, Jesus kept the Law (the Law included the Decalogue which initiated the Law) Himself, and He is the only One that could keep the Law. All others could only obey it but could not keep it. Keeping the Law could only be established by the obedience of One being sinless. Forgiveness came only from the priests sin sacrifices (Num 15:15). Of course the Law was finally "fulfilled" by Christ when He said "It is finished" and the new covenant was established after "taking away" the old covenant (Heb 10:9). Luke 16 16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. Mat 4 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 12 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.77 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12 11 hours ago, WordSword said: Yes, all are discontinued, and all that presently remains is the New covenant or the Gospel. The Decalogue began the Mosaic Law, which is the Pentateuch (as you said). The Torah is also the same as the Pentateuch.  What are the specific laws of the new covenant? And after that, to save a needless number of posts, how do we identify false doctrine and evil teaching under the new covenant since the old covenant is no longer of any value in determining this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordSword Posted February 12 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 168 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,161 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 645 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, FJK said: What are the specific laws of the new covenant? And after that, to save a needless number of posts, how do we identify false doctrine and evil teaching under the new covenant since the old covenant is no longer of any value in determining this? There is the "law of faith" and "the law of the Spirit" (Rom 3:27; 8:2), but no more laws for the Christian, because they need no laws. They are controlled and guided by God Himself (Phl 2:13), in order that salvation will be certain and permanent. Besides, the Law never applied to Gentiles. The OT Jews were given priests to make sin sacrifices as a "type" of Christ's expiation for sin, through which His forgiveness was granted (Num 15:25). The Christian Jews and Gentiles are saved by the practical Blood of Christ's atonement, which was not in "type" like the OT Saints, but actual occurrence.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 12 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.77 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12 9 minutes ago, WordSword said: Besides, the Law never applied to Gentiles. The OT Jews were given priests to make sin sacrifices as a "type" of Christ's expiation for sin, through which His forgiveness was granted (Num 15:25). The laws given to the Jews through Moses didn't, but what about the laws given to Noah long before there were any Jews (all gentiles being Noah's descendants)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WordSword Posted February 12 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 168 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,161 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 645 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/07/2010 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, FJK said: The laws given to the Jews through Moses didn't Not sure what you mean by "Moses didn't." All the laws prior to the Law of Moses were independent to those God were covenanting with. These are separate from the Mosaic Law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 12 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.77 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12 24 minutes ago, WordSword said: Not sure what you mean by "Moses didn't." apply to Gentiles. All the laws prior to the Law of Moses were independent to those God were covenanting with. These are separate from the Mosaic Law. I was a little unclear the way I stated it, I meant to mean they, the laws given by Moses, didn't apply to gentiles. But there were other Laws that did apply to Gentiles, those given to Noah, right? Did the NC make those of us who are not genuine Jews free of those laws as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NConly Posted February 12 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,335 Content Per Day: 2.78 Reputation: 614 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/11/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12 4 hours ago, FJK said: What are the specific laws of the new covenant? Â His commandment are in the Red letters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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