apothanein kerdos Posted November 23, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 23, 2005 There are Christians that work at Wal-Mart who are forced to surrender a part of their expression of faith by not being able to simply wish someone "Merry Christmas." Taken by itself, it might not seem like much. But it is a continuation of continuous erosion of our faith in the public arena. Then I encourage them to display the faith in which they see fit. Again, what is higher, company policy or the laws of God? Just about everything we use in America is made abroad and much of it in sub-human working conditions. Everything from Shoes to Clothes to... whatever. How many of our stores, not just Wal-Mart purchase those goods? Wal-Mart is just one of many companies that purchase from abroad, items that have been made in slave labor camps. We need not pretend that only Walmart is guilty of this. Lets just not feed or clothe our kids anymore, or take them to a dentist because items in his office were made in slave labor camp in Taiwan. How senseless is that? It is deplorable what is happening in those countries, but we cannot stop living our lives on account of it. They need to the gospel in a major way in order to bring an end to those kinds of horrible labor practices. There are actually ways to buy stuff that was not made by slave labor. For one, avoid discount stores. Generally if something is "off brand" but still expensive, this is because they paying a lot for labor thus don't have the resources for advertising or to lower the prices. It's expensive, but you can avoid the slave market that way. Unfortunately though, you are ultimately right. At some point we will buy something that was made by slaves, there is no avoiding it. However, at some point in our life we will also step in dog poo....doesn't mean we should roll around in it on a daily basis. You are missing my point. I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy in those who pontificate about tolerance, but demonstrate the highest form of intolerance simply because someone says "Merry Christmas." Again, it is the principle that I am dealing with. It is those who preach tolerance but use it as a one way street when applying to the Christian faith. Ah, I agree with you 100% on that. What is ironic is they applaud such works at "The Crucible", "The Scarlet Letter", and "Inheret the Wind" when the reality of the situation they are using the tactics of the "fundamentalists" in these works. No, that is a complete oversimplification of the issue. Just because a girl was mistreated in the Sudan does not mean that I should stop caring when atheists and others start throwing barbs at my faith. It is precisely because I do not want America to end up with a similar policy against us here 100 years from now, that I speak out against these things. It is not simply the Merry Christmas issue. I wish that is all it was. My point is that when we allow one thing to go, when we give up some ground today, then it sets us up to give more ground later. It is important, because it sets precedent. I am looking at the big picture, not simply the "Merry Christmas issue. I believe you are looking at the big picture, I just happen to believe you are going about it the wrong way in attempting to solve for it. I don't know, maybe I'm too nihlistic in my approach to the issue. THe way I view it is it is inevitable that Christianity will one day be illegal in all lands, thus instead of trying to fight it tooth and nail (though I will fight it) I will instead try and bring as many people to the Lord before it becomes illegal. We should fight against such tyranny, at the same time, we must not ignore our primary goal which is to tell people about Christ. So?? We should just sit back and let ourselves get kicked in the teeth each time the world decides that we have another public display of faith that they don't want to see anymore? No, we should do it anyway. That's what I'm advocating. Everyone wants to fight this on the legal level. In the 40's and 50's African Americans tried that route and it failed them. We should follow the Civil Rights example and practice civil disobedience. Shall I be arrested for preaching the Gospel on government property? If so, then so shall it be, then I can be in prison preaching the Gospel on more government property It's all perspective my friend. Wow...aren't the lines becoming more defined every day? Forget liberals and conservatives. Please dear God let me only be a Christian. How many people do you reckon are going to be saved by a 'Merry Christmas' at Wal-mart? Or a display of the 10 commandments? The people that you are fighting so bitterly about nonsense are the ones that aren't going to hear a word about Jesus now. I wonder how many 'Christians' in this country would even be affected if prayer or Bible reading was outlawed. Ok, it's time to join forces and roll over and enjoy secular society, lets face it...we sure ain't changing anything because we are too lukewarm to care. Where are we told to do this through, as John puts it, political activisim? In fact, where are we even called to change society? I already asked this and recieved no answer. We are told to share the Gospel, even if persecuted. Letting seculars pass laws is not "rolling over", it's simply saying, "I don't care" and "Whatever". I'll follow God regardless of what the law says. It is God, not the law, that I am accountable to. What is with the nastiness going on here? This discussion has turned from disagreement to hate at the opponent? Is that godly? Unfortunately hate is much easier than a respectful disagreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted November 23, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted November 23, 2005 This is weird . . . I've been through three stores, and in all the cash register people are saying, "Have a happy holiday!" Holiday? We used to call it Thanksgiving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie Posted November 23, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 104 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,026 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/13/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 23, 2005 This is weird . . . I've been through three stores, and in all the cash register people are saying, "Have a happy holiday!" Holiday? We used to call it Thanksgiving. You can reply by saying "happy thanksgiving and hope you have a good time on Jesus' birthday too!!" Super Jew, this article explains it much better than I can, please read... http://www.christiananswers.net/q-wall/wal-g005.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted November 24, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 24, 2005 This is weird . . . I've been through three stores, and in all the cash register people are saying, "Have a happy holiday!" Holiday? We used to call it Thanksgiving. You can reply by saying "happy thanksgiving and hope you have a good time on Jesus' birthday too!!" Super Jew, this article explains it much better than I can, please read... http://www.christiananswers.net/q-wall/wal-g005.html The article doesn't come close to what I was talking about though. I never said we are not to be involved in politics (which, the Walmart issue is a non-political thing) but instead that it should not be our primary mode for witnessing or bringing people to Christ. In fact, it is a secondary issue when it comes to sharing the Gospel. Likewise, if the government passes laws that prohibit our faith, then we must exercise our faith anyway. Also, if Christians truly get involved in politics then we need to broaden our horizons beyond "homosexuality" and "abortion". Treatment of the poor, war spending, the enviroment, dealings with other nations and how our actions hurt or help them......all of these must be considered when a Christian gets into politics. As it is, through the Christian worldview, more Christians should be Democrats than Republicans. The article addressed none of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted November 24, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,986 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 24, 2005 (edited) It figures that a Catholic would be the one to initiate the boycott. Not that I'm against Catholics, but after all, Catholisim is the organization that has propelled christmas into what it is today, a very pagan holiday. I have nothing against Wal-mart for this act. Whoever said that Wal-mart was a Christian company in the first place? Maybe the church should wake up! Christmas, it is what it is. The trouble is that most Christians are so busy holding on to their traditions of men and chasing after the lusts of the flesh that they don't make time to seek the truth. 2 Tim. 4:3-4 - "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. Edited November 24, 2005 by rollinTHUNDER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Ambassador Posted November 25, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 295 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 60 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/19/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1932 Share Posted November 25, 2005 Christmas is not a Biblically mandated holiday. So we are free to celebrate it any way we choose or not celebrate it at all. Christmas was adapted by Christians from a pagan winter festival so it is not exclusively a "Christian" holiday. For those of us who choose to celebrate the Lord's birth on that day it is a sacred time. For others it is at least a warm family time. Rather than criticizing others for how they celebrate the day or organizing boycots of retailers who choose to not make it exclusively a Christian celebration we would do better to share with them what and why we celebrate. Frankly, it makes Believers look silly as they major in minors over a celebration that was never authorized by Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest womanafterGod Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 Christmas is not a Biblically mandated holiday. So we are free to celebrate it any way we choose or not celebrate it at all. Christmas was adapted by Christians from a pagan winter festival so it is not exclusively a "Christian" holiday. For those of us who choose to celebrate the Lord's birth on that day it is a sacred time. For others it is at least a warm family time. Rather than criticizing others for how they celebrate the day or organizing boycots of retailers who choose to not make it exclusively a Christian celebration we would do better to share with them what and why we celebrate. Frankly, it makes Believers look silly as they major in minors over a celebration that was never authorized by Jesus. Christmas ........ Christ/ mas ....... is a time of celebrating Christs' birth.............i think we need to get the empasize back on Christs' birth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiosh Posted November 25, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,663 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 25, 2005 It figures that a Catholic would be the one to initiate the boycott. Not that I'm against Catholics, but after all, Catholisim is the organization that has propelled christmas into what it is today, a very pagan holiday. I have nothing against Wal-mart for this act. Whoever said that Wal-mart was a Christian company in the first place? Maybe the church should wake up! Christmas, it is what it is. The trouble is that most Christians are so busy holding on to their traditions of men and chasing after the lusts of the flesh that they don't make time to seek the truth. 2 Tim. 4:3-4 - "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. Huh? The boycott is about Wal-mart's anti-Christian bias, not about commercializing Christmas. Christmas is about celebrating the birth of Jesus....about praising God for this amazing gift of Himself. Little by little society is erasing this truth from being proclaimed in public. This is just one little effort to try to promote our right to openly express our belief. If I was a Wal-mart employee, and was told I could not say "Merry Christmas".......???? rT, I hear that you have disgust for the RCC, and I guess I'm getting used to it here. But try to see the bigger picture of what is happening in this country. If you want to see where this road is leading, you need only to look as far as Europe. And, it is not so much the effect this trend has on those with a firm faith in Jesus Christ. But more so what it does to unbelievers or those with a marginal faith. All those reminders of the birth of our Saviour are being removed from public display: Manger scenes, Christmas carols; and now, even "Merry Christmas". That being said, I know that the Almighty God is in control, and ultimately His will WILL be done. And one day, "EVERY knee shall bow, and EVERY tongue proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Hallelujah!!!!! We're just getting a head start. Merry Christmas!!!!, rT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted November 26, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Hey - I just read something in e-mail that due to enoughprotests, Wwal-Mart will now allow employees to say, "Merry Christmas!" if they so desire. Did anyone else hear this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted November 26, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 733 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,017 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/01/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/09/1966 Author Share Posted November 26, 2005 Hey - I just read something in e-mail that due to enoughprotests, Wwal-Mart will now allow employees to say, "Merry Christmas!" if they so desire. Did anyone else hear this? I didn't hear that. I only heard about all the fights that broke out across the country in WalMart stores today from all of the "Holiday" cheer and goodwill towards men in this season of.... "I wanted that! Don't touch it, it's mine! I was here first! I don't care if you don't get one! Do I look like I care? I know you didn't just grab my arm!" Yes, thank God, er... I mean good thing we got Jesus out of the holiday. It's sooooo offensive. "I said BACK OFF!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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