Abraham - Gentile or Hebrew?

[Guest ThroneofGrace]

In Genesis 14:13 reads: Then one who had escaped came and told Abram the Hebrew, for he dwelt by *the terebinth trees of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol and brother of Aner; and they were allies with Abram.

Now that verse alone is very clearly stating that Abram was Hebrew. Now, I know a Messianic Jew and she says that her synagogue teaches that he was NOT a Hebrew because not all Hebrews were Jews.

This confuses me because I thought in the OT that the children of Israel were all Hebrew, and the term "Jew" came from those of the tribal affiliation of Judah.

I just wanted to know what everyone else thinks about Abraham being Hebrew, or if you think he was gentile, and why?

[huuf]

I'll research this but right off the bat Hebrew refers to the language that Abram spoke which was of course Hebrew. Scripture makes fine distinctions between Israel-Jew-Hebrew and Jacob that i am now studying. Take note that in Gen ch 14 Abram has received the call of God and made covenent with him but has not yet begotten Issac nor been tested yet.

The change of Abrams name to Abraham and Sarai to Sarah is significant in that the Hebrew letter "hay" is added to each of thier names. The "hey" is thought to be a symbolism that God gave his "ruach/spirit" to them because of Abrahams faith.

A gentile is a non jew rather than a non hebrew i believe. Abraham sent Elieazer (a gentile) his servent to find a bride for Issac and had him return back to the land of Abrahams father (hrebrews) to find her (Mesopotamia, unto the city of Nahor.) rather than to the land of canaan which is a metaphore for the pagans of the time...

One last thing to consider, Jesus said "And think not to say within yourselves, We have {Abraham} to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto {Abraham)". In saying this he refers not only to Jews but to all the tribes including the 10 lost tribes or he would have used Israel instead of those born of Abraham...

Ill post any other information i get on this subject when i uncover it.

David

[Guest ThroneofGrace]

Thanks! I've read from this Jewish website that he was Hebrew, not gentile. But there are so many differing opinions (and theologies) on this subject.

[Old Timer]

Abraham was a Hebrew. The name comes from a descendent of Eber, Gen. 10:24.

All Jews are Hebrews but not all Hebrews are Jews. The term "Jews" comes from the tribe (nation) of Judah.

For example, the tribe of Dan were Hebrews but not Jews.

Another example, all Texans are Americans but not all Americans are Texans.

[Guest ThroneofGrace]

Abraham was a Hebrew. The name comes from a descendent of Eber, Gen. 10:24.

All Jews are Hebrews but not all Hebrews are Jews. The term "Jews" comes from the tribe (nation) of Judah.

For example, the tribe of Dan were Hebrews but not Jews.

Another example, all Texans are Americans but not all Americans are Texans.

Thats exactly what I thought when reading the Word.

[Ovedya]

Two definitions of the word "father":

1. The male parent of a person/child.

2. A man who creates, originates, or founds something; a leader.

Abraham was the literal and figurative father of the children of Israel. He is father to both Jew and believing Gentile alike. So it really doesn't matter where he was born. The important factor with regard to who he was, is that he waas selected from among a wicked and perverse nation to be God's unique representative on the earth - to be the father of God's chosen people.

[Guest shiloh357]

In Genesis 14:13 reads: Then one who had escaped came and told Abram the Hebrew, for he dwelt by *the terebinth trees of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol and brother of Aner; and they were allies with Abram.

Now that verse alone is very clearly stating that Abram was Hebrew. Now, I know a Messianic Jew and she says that her synagogue teaches that he was NOT a Hebrew because not all Hebrews were Jews.

This confuses me because I thought in the OT that the children of Israel were all Hebrew, and the term "Jew" came from those of the tribal affiliation of Judah.

I just wanted to know what everyone else thinks about Abraham being Hebrew, or if you think he was gentile, and why?

The Hebrew word for "Hebrew" is Ivri (ee-vree) It means to cross over. Abraham was the first "Hebrew" because he crossed the Euphrates. That is the short version.

There has been archeological evidence uncovered of ancient writings of the Canaanites dating to near the time of the Exodus that refers to very "rough" nomadic tribe known as the "Hapiru." It is believed that this is a reference to the Hebrew slaves, the Children of Israel.

The term "Jew" is just a shortend version of Yehudah or "Judah." It was primarily the lower Kingdom Judah that returned to the Land after the Exodus, and they were known as the Yehudim, "Jews."

[MK202002]

Ur Of The Chaldees was the home town of Abram, who became the father of Isaac and the grandfather of Jacob/Israel. The ancient city was located in southern Mesopotamia, near the Euphrates River (see The Tigris-Euphrates Valley), about 150 miles (240 kilometers) southeast of Babylon. Today, Ur finds itself in southern Iraq, about 100 miles (160 kilometers) northwest of the Kuwait border.

The Bible account of Abraham's family in Ur, and of his calling by God - Genisis 11:27-32

Abram was Hebrew, the Bible says. But it also lists Abram's hometown. In a round-about way, Abram was also an Iraqi!

The Bible account of Abraham's family in Ur, and of his calling by God - Genisis 11:27-32

"This is the account of Terah. Terah became the father of Abram, Nahor and Haran. And Haran became the father of Lot. While his father Terah was still alive, Haran died in Ur of the Chaldeans, in the land of his birth. Abram and Nahor both married. The name of Abram's wife was Sarai [see Sarah], and the name of Nahor's wife was Milcah; she was the daughter of Haran, the father of both Milcah and Iscah. Now Sarai was barren; she had no children."

"Terah took his son Abram, his grandson Lot son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, the wife of his son Abram, and together they set out from Ur of the Chaldeans to go to Canaan. But when they came to Haran, they settled there."

[Pilgrim7]

Blessings,

All of the world descends from Shem, Ham and Japeth, the three sons of Noah. The Hebrews descend from Eber who descends from Shem. Abram was the descendant of Eber. Thus the Covenant with Abraham was not with all the Hebrews, but with Abraham, a specific line of Hebrews, the father of the faithful for He was faithful to God.

Gen 18:17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;

18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Heb 11:6

But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as [in] a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker [is] God.

All who are not Hebrew in descent, are considered Gentiles. It is important to note that all came from faithful Noah, and at one time were children of God. It is just that most depart from the faith over time and a few generations down the line, they join some form of Idolatry and forget all about the True God. They still worship a god, but it is a false god, of their own devising, but think they are still worshiping the true God. This is why all Idolatry has things that resemble the truth and christianity. They took the truth and over time twisted it and added to it until it was a counterfeit of the truth. They gradually left the true God and never knew it. This is why each form of Idolatry had a flood story and some type of Saviour belief.

Here is the origin of the Gentiles:

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 1:21 because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, (After the flood all mankind knew God and the truth, they were taught by Noah himself) neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. (they left God for Idolatry and thus became Gentiles, idol worshipers and the enemies of God) 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, (you see they had the truth but changed it or twisted it until they worshiped a false God) who is blessed for ever. Amen. 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: (sounds familiar! See 2TIM 2:1-5)

The Gentiles came from the all the sons of Shem who were not in the Hebrew line, and all the descendants of Ham and Japheth. God cursed Canaan and made him a servant of Shem. This is why God promised the land of Canaan to Abram, when he left Harran. Abram's father Terah took the family out of Ur to Haran.

Gen 11:31 And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

12:4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram [was] seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

This curse of Canaan was what led God to promise the land of Canaan to Abraham.

Gen 9:25 And he said, Cursed [be] Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. 9:26 And he said, Blessed [be] the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. 9:27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Through Time God has had to renew His Covenant with the faithful children of the Original father of the Covenant, thus the Covenant with Noah, went to Shem, the Covenant with Shem through Eber, the first Hebrew, to Abraham the faithful Hebrew where we are told of the Covenant God made with Him, another renewal of the Everlasting Covenant made with Adam and Eve in the Garden, the promise of a Saviour. Next it went to Isaac the faithful son of Abraham, then Jacob/Israel and so on. Abraham and Isaac were not Israelites but faithful Hebrews. Noah was neither Hebrew nor Israelite nor Jew. You see God has been breaking off branches since the beginning. The important thing to understand is that all the offspring of Noah were a part of the tree, the family of God, after the flood.

God Bless,

Dennis