Arthur Durnan Posted August 2, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2003 The very FACT that a self-styled "atheist" exists constitutes evidence for the presence of an Almighty Creator of the universe. The alternative, if you will, is the self-styled concoction of the "atheist" who must then believe in - ah, there's that FAITH bit on THEIR side - creation by an INERT, BLIND & MINDLESS god called "god chance"! Hmmm. Verrry interesting, eh, what? Please kindly affirm "atheist" brain on-line before opening mouth.com Banzai! Annoy a self-styled "atheist". Go ahead. http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com P.S. How would an "atheist" know whether or not his/her non-God lives on Barnard's Star OR, forsooth, on Tau Centauri? Has he/she had the exciting privilege of checking it out? Now off for a lite expresso at StarBucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 2, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Hey, Arthur! I can appreciate your feelings. Unfortunately, I have been in debates with atheists - and I have seen where arguments like this go. It's not pretty - for the one giving the argument! Some of them (atheists) don't even like to consider themselves "atheists" because they are so positive there is no "God" that "knowing" such does not even warrent a title - it is just the way it is. Only people who believe in a "God" should be given a title. (And the person who said this did so with much more assertiveness than I could convey.) I have also seen them tackle the "god Chance" argument. It gets laughed at. They will only tell you how little you understand what science is all about, and then proceed to tell you how it works. The point is, atheists are not going to be won over by trying to play games with their mind - trying to catch them in an inconsistency, that is. What they do need is to see the reality of God in us. They need to see what His love is truly about. It's amazing how one will say there is no "God," and then react with anger towards the concept of people having a belief in Him. Somehow, they have been burned, and we need to find a way to minister to that injury - and maybe even injustice done to them by a Christian, or one claiming to be a Christian. You know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catsmeow Posted August 2, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 439 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7,315 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 356 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/21/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 2, 2003 Neb, every once in a while someone comes along with a gem like that last post of yours...and it's one of those I savor for a long time. Being burned. Yes. I know. I was a self-proclaimed agnostic/atheist (depending on my mood that day)..but I sure didn't believe in anything... It was a horrible and empty existence. I've been there... I left Christianity and totally rejected it because I was "burned" so badly... Now, I can totally relate. So, I'm hoping that my past experience will help draw someone out of the pit. Maybe. It will take the Lord doing it but I'd be so thankful for the honor of being used as a vessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted August 6, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 6, 2003 BOTH the faith argument AND the evidential argument give the Big Lie to "atheism." In fact, the Holy Bible adds the word "fool" to the issue. Never hesitate to publicly discuss - or, for that matter, debate - a self-proclaimed "fool" re the existence of Almighty God. Pshaw, "atheism" is ridiculous from start to finish. Repetez apres moi: "Fegettabowit!" God bless America! http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Darner Posted August 7, 2003 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 144 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/05/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2003 Arthur, I agree with you that we should definetly defend our faith when called. However, my mother is an atheist and I have watched many, many people over the years argue and debate with her and not one has moved her any closer to God. Many, in fact, seemed to have moved her farther away. I think my only hope for her lies in prayer to our Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted August 8, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 8, 2003 Thanx for your nice reply. However, I am very anxipous for you to inform me re her specific ANSWER to the rational query I asked earlier - How can your dear mother say there is no God, and thereby be a self-styled "atheist", if she has never yet personally visited all of God's majestic creation including Barnard's Star (and the billions of other stars and suns) in order to discover whether or not God does, or does not, reside on one of them? UPON PRECISELY WHAT does your mother - and any self-styled "atheist" - base their quik and fairly muted response? I have debated "atheists" on three continents and they are wonderful folk for avoiding the query to the best of their ability. Cordially, http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 8, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Did it work in leading them to actually change their minds about God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted August 8, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted August 8, 2003 The argument is simple: No one can logically argue the statement, "There is no God." The statement itself implies fact. Fact must be proven with evidence or first hand knowledge. No one can have first hand knowledge that there is no God, for the mere fact that one cannot be simultaneously in all places at one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneAccord Posted August 8, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 147 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,587 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2003 My father is an atheist, and loves to debate Christians. It's sort of a sport or a game, and he can get Christians really riled up! He gets a kick out of it, and most are not aware of the game he's playing. The game isn't about who's right or wrong, the game is about getting the Christian to lose his composure. He even got one guy to throw him out of the local cafe and it made the guy look like a flaming hypocrite when he start yelling and making a scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted August 8, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Arthur, I agree with you that we should definetly defend our faith when called. However, my mother is an atheist and I have watched many, many people over the years argue and debate with her and not one has moved her any closer to God. Many, in fact, seemed to have moved her farther away. I think my only hope for her lies in prayer to our Lord. The problem is that she is using the wrong organ. Only the human spirit can receive the Spirit of God. No one "intelligently" decides to become a believer, and no one having lost a debate over the xistence of God gives up and gives their lives to Christ. Take it from a former atheist (myself), no argument or debate is as effective as genuine prayer. Your mother needs to hear the Scriptures, she needs to see Christ lived out through you, she needs to know that you are praying for her - even if thinks you're wasting your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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