EricH Posted January 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 18, 2006 . It is man-made and the Bible through interpretation has bent to it, but the real truth is in the Bible and it is the Oneness of God! On this we will have to disagree. The fatal shortcoming of the position you are espousing is that you must deny a multitude of scriptures that speak to the personal relationships that exist between the members of the God-head (or you must affirm that they were an allusion and not real). If you believe that there were not distinct prsonalities withing the God-head you must redefine what it means that The Son makes intercession before the father for us, and that Jesus sent the Spriit into the world. You damage the heart of the doctrin of the atonement, namely that the Father sent the eternal Son into the world and that the Father turned His back on the Son. You also damage the doctine of the independence of God, because without the relationships that exist within the God-head, God would need humanit for relationship. You also damage the doctrine of the God-Man. You imply that His divine and human natures acted independently of each other. These natures, according to scripture, were indivisible The doctrine of the trinity encapsulates all of the verses that speak to the nature of God. One-ness theology ignores or changes verses to fit its structure You should find out what we believe before you start telling us what we believe. The things you have said about us are not true at all. The "oneness" beliefs is what I am referring to. However you do agree with them as to the nature of the God-head. Namely that there are not three distinct personalities within the God-head. Is that not true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted January 18, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 18, 2006 So if Jesus is just another manifestation of God....why did Jesus pray to God? If Jesus is just another form of God...how is it God knows when He'll return but Jesus (God) doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unico Posted January 19, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 27 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 19, 2006 More on Elohim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted January 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,092 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 437 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 19, 2006 More on Elohim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chad Posted January 19, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 136 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 So if Jesus is just another manifestation of God....why did Jesus pray to God? If Jesus is just another form of God...how is it God knows when He'll return but Jesus (God) doesn't? This is explained very easily if you know how to look at the incarnation (I Timothy 3:16). Jesus was God manifested in flesh. He was fully-God and fully-man. For God to experience being fully a man He had to set aside His divinity in Jesus. Without this basic fact, neither the oneness view or the trinitarian view would work. Jesus being a man prayed to God, felt emotions, did not know everything, died on the cross for our sins. Jesus as divine healed the sick, cast out devils, and performed many other miracles. I used to separate Jesus' two natures to fit what He was doing at the time, but you can't do that and do justice to who He was. Jesus was God, but in order for God to really feel the temptations and trials that we go through had to make Himself fully a man. The only thing He lacked that we have is a sinful nature. You can't separate His human nature and divine natures. He is the only man who ever possessed both and they fused together to make the man Jesus. Think of it this way, if God had just come to dwell in a body and was not truly a man, then His sacrifice on the cross would have been completely pointless. We need a human sacrifice to atone for our sins and that is why God manifested Himself in flesh and became a real man. Forever more we will see the one on the throne, Jesus Christ, in all His glory! He is God. He is the Father, the Son, and He most certainly is the Holy Spirit. God does not need to be three "persons" to achieve what He did throughout the Bible. We just need to look deeper than man's interpretation to see it. This is the truth that the apostles taught and somewhere after them man's explanation got off track trying to combat all the heresy going around. I will agree that some scriptures are easily interpreted to be trinitarian, but the Book as a whole does not support the trinity. God bless all of you brothers and sisters. Remember it is very hard to give up something which you have been taught to be right. If we look for ourselves with an open heart, Jesus Christ will open the doors and let understanding come in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted January 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 19, 2006 Remember it is very hard to give up something which you have been taught to be right. If we look for ourselves with an open heart, Jesus Christ will open the doors and let understanding come in. Just so you know, I grew up being taught oneness. It wasn't until I actually studied the issue that I came to the belief in the Triniy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted January 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 19, 2006 More on Elohim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted January 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 19, 2006 Remember it is very hard to give up something which you have been taught to be right. If we look for ourselves with an open heart, Jesus Christ will open the doors and let understanding come in. This cuts both ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted January 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 19, 2006 God does not need to be three "persons" to achieve what He did throughout the Bible. We just need to look deeper than man's interpretation to see it. This is the truth that the apostles taught and somewhere after them man's explanation got off track trying to combat all the heresy going around. I will agree that some scriptures are easily interpreted to be trinitarian, but the Book as a whole does not support the trinity. God bless all of you brothers and sisters. Actually modalism is a man-made doctrine and was not taught by the apostles. It was actually developed by Sabellius in 3rd century Rome. It basically states that Jesus is the Father and the Spirit and reveals Himself as such at different times. Actually you are favoring a single aspect of scripture (the unity of God) over other scriptures. The Trinity is actually a better statement of the entire council of the word of God. Modalism (your position) is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted January 19, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 19, 2006 This is explained very easily if you know how to look at the incarnation (I Timothy 3:16). Jesus was God manifested in flesh. He was fully-God and fully-man. For God to experience being fully a man He had to set aside His divinity in Jesus. Without this basic fact, neither the oneness view or the trinitarian view would work. Jesus being a man prayed to God, felt emotions, did not know everything, died on the cross for our sins. Jesus as divine healed the sick, cast out devils, and performed many other miracles. I used to separate Jesus' two natures to fit what He was doing at the time, but you can't do that and do justice to who He was. You have not really explained yourself clearly here. You seem to be saying that Jesus set aside certain aspects of His diety, then claiming you can't divide them. Also I Timothy 3:16 discusses the incarnation, but is not a full theology of it. There are other passages that you need to bring to bear as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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